this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 months ago (34 children)

Who du they think they are at war with?

[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 months ago (22 children)
[–] FlyingSquid 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (20 children)

Well then they lost that war a long time ago, as the long line of beach resorts across the Cuban coastline would show you.

Just because Americans can't (easily) go to them, doesn't mean privately-owned places like this don't exist there:

Edit: Not one downvoter has explained how you can have privately and corporate-owned luxury resorts in a non-capitalist country. Can't imagine why.

[–] nixcamic 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

Not one downvoter has explained how you can have privately and corporate-owned luxury resorts in a non-capitalist country. Can't imagine why.

Oooh I love this false dichotomy because if every government that allows for any form of corporate owned private property to exist is capitalist then we can ascribe basically all evil to capitalism. Heck even the USSR was capitalist by your logic. Capitalists did the holodomor.

[–] nforminvasion 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The USSR was evidently state capitalist.

[–] BrokenGlepnir 1 points 4 months ago

Yeah, it was a giant company town.

[–] FlyingSquid 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

How is this a dichotomy? How does private ownership and profit exist in a communist state? That's pretty much the definition of capitalism.

I understand wanting Cuba to be a communist country, but it's no more communist than China.

You tell me where Marx says private ownership and enriching corporate profits are features of communism.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Every mode of production contains elements of its former, according to Marx, exactly because we have to understand human development and our current paradigm through historical materialism.

To say that a communist nation cannot contain capitalist components as its non fundamental mode of production is as stupid as saying Britain is not capitalist because they have a king.

[–] FlyingSquid 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That is not in any way the same. Either there are hierarchies of power and the people at the top get rich and corporations make profits or it’s a communist country. You can’t have it both ways no matter how much you want to take the concept of communality from communism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

You need to be able to distinguish between a country's primary mode of production versus the scope of its total. A "perfect" capitalist or communist one will likely never exist, at least not any time soon. You cannot ignore the aspects of the basis on which development happens.

[–] FlyingSquid 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

And yet there were plenty of other communist countries in the 20th century that did not have any corporations making profits. Why is Cuba special in this regard?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Were there really in accordance with the definition you are trying to enforce?

[–] FlyingSquid 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Well I sure as hell know that corporations and profit don't belong with whatever definition of communism you seem to be suggestion.

The very idea that allowing corporate profits are still communist as long as it's not the primary mode of production is nonsense. If every single thing in Cuba was privatized apart from its tobacco industry, its largest export, would you say it was still a communist country?

I'm also curious how you'll defend Cuba's three largest exports being addictive, carcinogenic substances. And yes, to pre-empt the whataboutism, I know the U.S. exports a whole lot of toxic shit, but we're not talking about the U.S.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I never said anything about Cuba specifically. I made a general remark that an analysis of whether a country is socialist or not has to concern itself with what is the primary mode of production. I also wanted to bring in historical materialism because you seemed to talk about Marx without (seemingly) understanding this very important part of his contributions.

To be clear, my position was, and still is, that I find your analysis faulty, regardless of what I think would be the right conclusion on Cuba being communist.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Does the United States having food stamps and public education make it a socialist country?

[–] FlyingSquid 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That is in no way the same. Have you even read Capital or the Communist Manifesto?

Getting pissed off at me that private ownership and profit are not things that belong in communism is silly. Based on that argument, the U.S. isn't a socialist country, it's a communist one.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm a different person. I'm not pissed, I'm just making casual conversation.

Communism and capitalism as they were described in the literature both died in 93 and 08 respectively.

Just like the current capitalist system in the US cannot function without massive subsidies and bailouts, I'd imagine the current communist systems require private enterprises to keep parts of their system functioning.

[–] FlyingSquid 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Then I guess it isn't right to call Cuba communist, as much as that pisses some people off.

If communism requires private enterprise, it isn't communism. The word 'communism' comes from 'communal' That is not communal. Find another word.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

I agree, and honestly a rebranding would go a long way to improving its appeal to the average person

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