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In your opinion, why do so many socialists seem to have a hard time criticizing the Chinese/Russian regime? (self.socialism)

submitted 1 year ago by woland to c/[email protected]

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Sorry if this question seems inflammatory or uninformed, it comes from a place of simple curiosity.

While getting into socialist theory, partly through breadtube content, I often stumbled upon creators/commentators/writers who absolutely crucify the US (rightfully so in many regards), but either justify wrongdoings of the CCP/Russian regime or outright support them.

To me it seems absolutely incongruous to claim socialist ideals for oneself but to champion authoritarian regimes that have ties to Socialism merely semantically or through some spurious historical traditions.

Can you enlighten me about this? Thank you.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I believe, all socialist movements are flawed to some extent. But history can teach us to be better. What we need is a new and improved version of socialism, that isn't anchored around authoritarianism or simply collapses when opposition is strong. After all the previous socialism experiments did have some flaws that would not be an issue with current technology and social awerness. Like management and planning for example. Or supressing of freedom to believe. We don't need to fall into the same trap as china or russia.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Strongly agree that all socialist movements are flawed. Have you read The Purity Fetish and the Crisis of Western Marxism by Carlos L Garrido? Makes some good points along the lines of the one your comment starts with. [Edit: ebook or paperback and ebook.]

I must challenge your characterisation of China and Russia, though. Heaven forbid we help to end colonialism (USSR), lift hundreds of millions out of poverty (China), or develop from backwards feudalism to advanced society in one generation (both).

And if there's one thing that socialist governments can't be knocked for trying, it's management and planning! The USSR was so proficient, we can thank them for defeating the Nazis, launching satellites, the concept of a welfare state, and a host of other tech. China has gone from having a huge gap between the relations and the forces of production to rivalling the west with the most advanced tech: https://www.aisuperpowers.com.

There's also the attempt by Allende in Chile to introduce Project Cybersyn well before the modern internet took off. The aim was to use technology to improve planning.

I’m unsure what you mean by authoritarianism? Have you read ‘On Authority’ by Engels. One might say that State and Revolution is an extension of Engels’ argument. Part of Lenin’s view on the dictatorship of the proletariat is summarised here: https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/blogs/news/3228-lenin-s-three-theoretical-arguments-about-the-dictatorship-of-the-proletariat.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks for the good links and resources, I ll check it out. I am just starting in reading up on these topics. I do know about the project in chile though, it looked very promising before getting screwed by the US. We sadly did not get to see more results. When I was referring to planning being an issue, i just meant they didn't have super good computers and internet back in the day, and a planned economy would be way easier to manage with current technology. Not to undermine their achievements.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

You're welcome.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I know what you mean. Imagine if society implemented planning with modern tech in the same way as Amazon does. The future is here, the people just need to control it.