soulless

joined 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

While I have to admit that I've been frustrated by the tankies during my short stay on lemmy.ml, I don't think that's a fair representation of their views.

Most I believe seem frustrated by a western world that seem entirely too content in accepting a narrative heavily biased in favor of laissez-faire capitalism and right wing narratives, to the extent that it has blinded them to the cruelty of regimes in China and Russia.

I think that in order to foster a fruitful discussion here and avoid the trenches that often form between differing political views on the web, trying first to understand and empathise with an opposing view is crucial. It's been a good heuristic for me at least, except in those cases where there is zero intention of even trying to understand each other (where just ignoring works well).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Considering that Reddit's capitalist shenanigans is what brought redditors here, having socialist devs is not necessarily a bad thing.

You'd probably also be shocked at how many communists are strongly involved in FOSS development, and just how nice and great people they are on average.

In any case, don't worry too much about it, their software is open source so if they suddenly turn evil, a fork is enough to fix it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Threads on Twitter are usually not a very compelling source, I am not against changing my opinion if the evidence is compelling, but that was not it.

See for example how the question is answered over on r/askhistorians:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/140daad/how_many_people_died_during_the_tiananmen_square/jmw0ns0/

Well sourced with actual recent publications and honest as to what the uncertainties are.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Most I know are generally opposed to violence, with some exceptions allowed for any revolution or class struggle.

When it comes to countries like the US or China, using violence in the form of the military or police against your own population is such a big difference in power that any violence ought to be as minimal as possible.

Using tanks and rifles against a group of civilians is so far beyond that, that it's not within what I think any of the IRL socialists I know would deem appropriate or acceptable.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

That does explain the issue in a much more understandable way to me, and I thank you for not assuming I'm here just to argue.

I guess my slice of the social media "bubble" has always been more left leaning so I tend to see much more criticism of NATO and the US and haven't really thought much about criticism of China since to me at least it has seemed fairly balanced or at least not too imbalanced.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Whether it's China or really anything, I'd agree to being critical of any claims made without proper context, yet the context here is the massacre and subsequent cover-up perpetrated by the Chinese government following peaceful protests on the Tiananmen square.

Meeting that with whataboutisms and vague excuses is disrespectful towards the victims full stop.

Being a socialist should be easy, because truth is on our side. It should be easy to point to Tiananmen square and say "this is what happens when the ruling class feels threatened", just like you can say the same thing when the US government busts their unions or murders their black citizens. Being an unquestioning supporter of either of these regimes is not what socialism is to me, and it never was. I just don't understand how anyone can reconcile these opposing views in their heads.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If you really want to hit them, just make a concerted effort to request GDPR data for your user. It's perfectly legal, it costs them time and money, and it may also actually benefit you to know what kind of data reddit collects about you.

At some point, it may even become a nice tool, say if someone creates a way to import that data into e.g. the fediverse or tilde or something similar.

For anyone interested, this is the page: https://www.reddit.com/settings/data-request. Just log in, select GDPR and request data for your "full time at Reddit".

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (19 children)

Having been a life long socialist myself, it's a bit mystifying to me how anyone can believe that the atrocities commited by the US somehow makes the PRC or Russia in any way deserving of praise.

For sure I'd like more people to call out the American genocide of its natives, or honor the heroes that fought for their emancipation during the time of chattel slavery.

But I'll be damned if any of those atrocities will make me defend the human suffering caused by the Chinese or Russian regimes. To me, being a socialist means standing up for the little guy, judging a society by how we care for those who have the least. The only us vs them struggle there is, is the one between the working and the ruling class - not the one between east and west. Idolising Zedong only puts another Emperor on a pedestal. I say fuck them all, western or eastern rulers and billionaires, they're the real enemies of a social and equal world.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

First of all, my suggestion was that it'd be up to them. If Ukraine and Russia are OK with PRC acting as mediator that's really all there is to it. My point was that PRC aren't necessarily neutral.

Secondly, a peace doesn't necessarily mean less people dead in the long run, Russia has shown how little regard they have for civilian lives, and their imperialistic posturing begs the question as to who would be next? Moldova perhaps?

As an allegory, consider that you have a neighbour who believes he should be entitled to taking the eldest of your three children and half of your house. Would a good mediator then suggest that your neighbour should only get 25% of your house and perhaps your youngest child? I think not, and I think that's more or less the position Ukraine has when it comes to their territorial integrity. I'm sure they're open to debate NATO membership as well as keeping Sevastopol open, but they have been rather firm that they will not discuss any option involving concession of land to Russia, and I don't think you, the PRC or anyone else are in a position to judge them for that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I would ask them, but I would guess a delegation from the African Union or possibly a south american coalition would be as close to neutral as can be.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Please enlighten me

China has supplied drones and more than likely advanced technology like semi-conductors and equipment meant for operating radar systems/weapons guidance and similar. Some of this is not "official" support, in the sense that civilian Chinese companies are supplying drones, however this is certainly being used for military purposes within Ukraine. Whether or not this can be proven 100% is less important, since the appearance of bias is as detrimental to neutrality as actual bias.

With regards to the economic incentive, Chinese trade has increased by 30% since the invasion began, making China by far the most important trading partner for Russia.

Now, I am making no judgement as to the morality of this and I am certainly not making any pro US arguments, I am just pointing out that painting China as a neutral part here is disingenuous, they absolutely have interests that align more closely with their good friend and trading partner Russia vs. helping Ukraine and the rest of Europe reach any goals they might have.

Second I don’t see how the US has the ability to be taken charitably any more

That's fine and I understand the sentiment (although as a rhetorical device, I find the "principle of charity" to be worthwhile and helpful towards mutual understanding), however I don't think this makes either Russia or China any better - they just might all be a bunch of evil bastards :)

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Is this really true though? A neutral third party would not supply weapons or have any economic incentive to the outcome of the conflict, which China plainly does have. I'm not saying the US or really any NATO country is in a better position, however saying China is only interested in peace and are a neutral third party is disingenuous.

And as to what Blinken is saying, that's something Ukraine has been saying since the invasion began. Sure it's not his place, however if you interpret it charitably, it could also be construed as supporting the stance of your ally in the face of pressure towards an agreement they don't really want.

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