fkn

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[–] fkn 1 points 1 year ago (21 children)

So your suggestion is to force people to agree with you and to submit to your interpretation of fairness... with violence...

[–] fkn 1 points 1 year ago (23 children)

Ah, good old fashioned Nihilism. Another thing that I think is silly.

It is irrelevant what you think personally. Other people don't necessarily think those things and assuming that they will or do abide by your positions without an incentive is folly.

[–] fkn 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Obviously we have different definitions of capitalism... which makes the rest of the discussion difficult.

Fundamentally, serfs in a feudal society did not own the right to their own labor for the portion of their labor assigned to their lord.

Fundamentally, people in modern capitalist societies do own the rights to their own labor.

Practically, the ability to exercise those rights is severely limited (which is what the meme is trying to point out). There are reasonable arguments that the poor in modern capitalism have less freedom than serfs of feudal societies... but that doesn't make them equivalent.

And, for what it's worth, Marx wasn't arguing about 12th century feudalism... that was some 700 years before the form of capitalism that was present in his time.

[–] fkn 4 points 1 year ago (25 children)

You answered it yourself, but I will elaborate.

Humans are different between individuals. Some people are dumb. Some people are mean. Some people are evil. Fundamentally the paradox of tolerance applies to fairness as well.

[–] fkn 2 points 1 year ago

I'm confused. I don't see a rebutal to the actual argument here.

[–] fkn 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The difficult step is getting around or past the concept of private property.

Except for altruism, how do we effectively remove "property" from people who create it but don't need it. Most arguments I have seen or read end up back at basic capitalism.

The ideal that everyone would be altruistic and give up all superfluous labor seems far fetched.

[–] fkn 4 points 1 year ago

This is the most persuasive argument in this thread so far... but I'm not sure it's valid (which is disconcerting because I do think the guns argument is valid but like you said it's the same it very similar argument)...

I think the part that is different is the scale of scope. For violence, modern firearms immediately peg the board in the red. I'm not sure that capitalism does that.

[–] fkn 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I jive with most of what you write... but you have weird things sprinkled throughout...

Like, differentiating between the pharaoh and the state... the pharaoh was the state. I mean, there was more of a state than just the pharaoh... but practically the pharaoh was the state.

It's like saying that there is a difference between the Russian state and Putin... technically yes, but practically no. Putin is the Russian state. Obviously there is bureaucracy as well, but is just a weird separation.

[–] fkn 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I haven't found Chomskys work to be convincing... it's always so... extra...

[–] fkn -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You think it's the govt that creates the power imbalances that results in violence? This is laughable... government is a result of violence that creates the power imbalance. Your point was reasonable until you conflated the two at the end.

[–] fkn 3 points 1 year ago (22 children)

I think it's important to note that your neighbors might be the enemy... most people are great, some are not.

[–] fkn 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (28 children)

I don't believe this to be true. Fairness only matters to people who value fairness. Many people value fairness, but it is irrational to believe that everyone values fairness. Some, not most or even many, don't care about fairness fundamentally. For these people, interesting fairness does nothing for them. These are the people we need to protect others from while also providing an environment that didn't necessarily mean removing or killing them.

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