Pspspspspsps

No real drama, beehaw just doesn't have the moderation tools to handle the sudden large influx of users from both lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works (I can never remember where the periods go, sorry if it's wrong!) in order to moderate their communities how they want to and was struggling. It's hopefully a temporary measure until mod tools are strengthened but has shone a light on some of the other cracks in the system that require some attention too. From what I've read it was basically constantly fire fight issues with limited tools and people or use the nuke option which is unfortunate.

I'm thankful for everyone confirming my thought process, I wasnt sure if I was completely missing something important. It sucks that I seem to be correct, but it helps to know that I'm probably not imagining the issue lol

My mistake, apologies. I saw this sub recommended to someone else in a thread over at Lemmy.world community discussing something tangentially related but I realise now I may have missed something important as to why it was recommended to them. I previously posted this question in a lemmy.world thread but people did not understand my question lol.

It's a pretty bad oversight, and makes me think the best thing to do is temporary mutual defederation until it's addressed which obviously isn't ideal at all, but I do worry about the implications of so many reasonably sized communities being completely unmoderated on our end. Thank you for the advice tho, I'll make sure to save your comment so I can refer back to it if this isn't fixed!

Hi :)

I can see you, just demonstrating something

Maybe I'm not being clear here.

lemmy.world users can still make new posts in [email protected], which is only hosted on lemmy.world and there is no indication in the UI that the community is a 'false' version, only visible to other lemmy.world users

The posts made in [email protected] by lemmy.world users are not hosted on the 'true' beehaw instance. The 'true' community is moderated by beehaw mods. The 'false' community is moderated by who?

lemmy.world never had moderators for these communities because they were beehaw.org communities. So who is moderating these posts?

Examples of posts in beehaw communities by world users after defederation

https://lemmy.world/post/172609

https://lemmy.world/post/167045

https://lemmy.world/post/158352

https://lemmy.world/post/185750

https://lemmy.world/post/162320

Is it a rare bug if it's possible on multiple beehaw communities? These are all posts on different beehaw communities by lemmy.world users after defederation that I can only see while logged into my lemmy.world account. Last post by me that I just made.

https://lemmy.world/post/172609

https://lemmy.world/post/167045

https://lemmy.world/post/158352

https://lemmy.world/post/185750

See this post here. example of what I'm talking about

This post is available to all lemmy.world users. But it is on a 'false' beehaw instance, completely unlinked from the true instance. Previous moderation was done by beehaw mods

Lemmy.world users can post a d comment in the local version of beehaw communities.

I joined the LGBTQ community, and there has been posts made by other lemmy.world since the defederation that are only visible to other lemmy.world users.

Who moderates those posts now, because the lgbt@beehaw community was previously moderated by beehaw mods. Now those mods do not see those posts and they are not on beehaw servers, only Lemmy.world servers. But Lemmy.world never had moderators for that community because it was a beehaw community

Edit: example

Not this one, the beehaw shell communities that are still accessible but disconnected from beehaw mods

So who moderates those posta? Is that shown before making a post or comment or does a user have to mistakenly post and then see the 'true' post doesn't exist to work it out?

I use jerboa app so that icon doesn't exist at all, which is more an issue for jerboa developers but from a phone/app user perspective, there is absolutely no way to identify a sub has been defederated without switching accounts to a federated account.

Amazing post with great info, thank you! There literally nothing in UI to let people know this is how it works tho and relies on words of mouth sharing. Communities essentially look exactly the same but like there's been no activity unless lemmy.world users post in it so you have to be able to guess posts are on a defederated instance or be hypervigilant in checking usernames if you haven't seen any posts about it, or are a new user in a week when this is t discussed as frequently. This is a huge oversight tbh and leaves me feeling a little uneasy. With more questions.

For example the LGBTQ community hosted on beehaw. Hypothetically say all of us genuine users who are aware of this unsubscribe because we find other communities that allow us to participate with a wider community. The shell community is still there, using beehaw branding, looks like a legit LGBTQ space but is now exclusively populated by trolls and unfortunate users who have missed announcements that this has happened. Nothing in the UI informs anyone posting or commenting there that it is not the true instance, and therefore no longer moderated by the owners.

Unaware user who already subscribed before the defederation posts a topic they want to discuss in a few weeks time, and suddenly they're flooded with highly upvoted troll responses That post ends up on the lemmy.world local/all page and is broadcast to other users who may not be aware, and a lot of new users who have no idea this ever happened. Now Beehaw is known as a hub for homophobic trolls that allows queer users to be trolled, and the trolls know they can get away with it in that community. Sure, eventually someone will come in to let that user know what's up and where to go, but by that time the damage is already done.

That also leads me to question how reporting works for this type of thing. If I report a user for breaking sub rules on the false version, who does that report go to? Is it a random lemmy.world mod/admin because we are both lemmy.world users in a community without beehaws mods or is it lost to the ether because there's no longer a connection to beehaw mods? If it goes to world mods, what if someone violates the subs rules that are still shown on the false instance, but not lemmy.world rules? My understanding was that moderation happened in communities by the host instance so does that mean these shell communities are completely unmoderated? That makes me feel very uncomfortable that these shell communities are even still available to world users, if it is the case, and should be cause for a mutual defederation until it's addressed but I'd like to have my reasoning corrected here if I'm off base. I'm still learning but this has me a little concerned so would appreciate being corrected if I'm wrong.

Edit: people are misunderstanding what I'm saying in the comments.

Who is moderating posts made by lemmy.world users in 'false' beehaw communities since the official beehaw moderators can no longer see these posts?

https://lemmy.world/post/172609

https://lemmy.world/post/167045

https://lemmy.world/post/158352

https://lemmy.world/post/185750

https://lemmy.world/post/162320

Yeah it's essentially a local shell using beehaw branding.

It definitely needs something in the UI to show this is the case. Lemmy.world users who do not have multiple accounts cannot check this, and could be led to believe anything posted locally is mod approved by beehaw which is not good for anyone involved. Luckily it seems to protect the rest of the fediverse from this possibility (unless screenshot and shared externally) so the main issue is only to ensure defederated server users are aware. Easy for those of us here and saw the posts about it, but potentially new users who are unaware of this could be easily misled.

Something like an auto flair/tag might address it, but I'm not even going to pretend to understand how to implement something like that. All I know is users of defederated servers need to be shown visibly on every post that they're not engaging with the actual instances community and it's a local copy only. (ETA or somehow delete the local copy? Just something lol)

I can see this post via lemmy.world but not feddit.uk

Beehaw is still federated with feddit.uk, and is not showing posts in this sub from lemmy.world users

I cannot see posts in this sub from beehaw or other instance users, I only see lemmy.world user posts while logged into lemmy.world

So it appears that lemmy.world users can only see and interact with other new lemmy.world posts, so if you see a post from beehaw right now while using a lemmy.world account, it's clear it's from another lemmy.world user (if you are aware of the defederation, it definitely doesn't tell you which is pretty bad imo)

If it is the same for all other servers, I am assuming if you are on a beehaw federated server you will also not see posts from lemmy.world users.