Malte

Well I think you also forfeit some of our your legal rights after you commit crimes? And certainly that doesn't make Israel a rogue nation or just as bad as Hamas. There's nuance and middle ground, it's not black and white. The USA one-sidedly canceled the Iran nuclear treaty and the Paris climate agreement and they never accepted the ICC, that's shitty but would you argue it makes them a rogue nation just as bad as Hamas? I don't think so.

That is not at all what I said. And I do indeed not believe Israel is genociding palestinians. The settlement policies are shitty but they do not equal genocide. Refusing supplies if Hamas takes control of them, that's also not too much to ask. And if Hamas declines, who is it now that is denying supplies to palestinians? It's a shitty situation but no, genocide is something else entirely.

I grew up in Germany and you're right, that might have influenced my views about how people are responsible for their government and how extremism has consequences.

Sorry but even if we assume somehow all other ways are exhausted and violence is your last resort, going after the kids and the festivalgoers is never justified under any circumstances. Maybe if Hamas wouldve directed the fight at the people that have bit to do with the situation like police or army who also use violence to enforce shitty policies.

But with the way things are and the actions Hamas did I don't have to think twice, I'll side with Israel and IDF. They are not perfect but still the way way better option.

I mean there are also legal frameworks in place that prohibit kidnapping your neighbours kids and shooting up their music festivals. Somehow Hamas gets to break this but Israel is still bound to Oslo accords?

Did I say I approve the land stealing and settlement policies? What I said is that going on a killing spree and running amok on a music festival is not an acceptable reaction, even if you're being treated unfair and your land is being stolen. And if your government thinks it is then this kinda does become your responsibility.

This is not at all what I said and you are making assumptions that are not true. Like Israel is attacking unprovoked just for the sake of it? That's bullshit. And Israel routinely kills random civilians out of cruelty? That's simply not true. Yes civilians sometimes end up as collateral damage but it is never the direct intention. The IDF has processes in place to determine when and where to attack and every single one is based on intel and reasonable probability that legit combatants and targets are hit. Are they always right? Of course not. Do they accept civilian casualties if that can't be avoided? Of course they do. That doesn't change the fact that civilians are not attacked unprovoked just like that out of cruelty or in order to genocide them.

The same can't be said about Hamas music festival attacks and that precisely is the difference.

I mean maybe the way Israel was set up was not correct but it's been a long time ago and it's time to let go. This is revisionist, just like Putin arguing how he wants the soviet union back or China vs. Taiwan. Israel is a fact for a long time now, there is no good way to change this now so maybe look forward and try for peaceful coexistance.

And yes the settlement policies and other things are bad, I'm not saying that everything Israel is doing is 100% good. But it's on an entirely different level and the ends don't always justify the means. If you try to fight this by being a babarian horde using human shield tactics and by parading dead girls with their tits out through the streets of Gaza then don't expect my support.

Im referring to the case of Shani Louk among others, go look up the videos if you can stomach it. Somehow I don't see this behaviour on IDF side, they also don't attack music festivals or take 4yo kids as hostages. Hamas has lost any credibility and certainly has no moral right to anything anymore. The case of settlements might be shitty but they are no justification for any of this.

Bullshit, the invader didn't exactly come unprovoked did it? People couldve stayed inside Gaza and live peacefully but no that's not enough somehow. They somehow have to constantly attack their neighbour and then cry foul when they loose. When they could've just as well directed this energy into improving Gaza and making it more liveable. And of course Hamas is merely fighting oppression, after all parading naked bodies of girls that they raped to death is just what freedom fighters do right?

I mean that's exactly what I am talking about. How was Israel in a position to cut anything? Because it was them supplying in the first place. To you expect them to keep on feeding and supplying after the attacks? You kill my festival goers and cry foul if I stop giving water and electricity in return? Maybe don't bite the hand that feeds you.

If you don't want to risk your life at the very least you can stop contributing and leave. And personally that would also have been my choice.

Palestinians had plenty of options and a shit ton of development aid and charity money to improve their place. Hamas was far from their only option.

So the palestinians are being victimized both by Hamas and Israel and they have no control of their live whatsoever? If this is your take then why do they choose to stay and why do they choose to bring kids into an environment like this?