Dashi

Driving is a privilege, but i believe education is a right and requirement for every child. Parents can choose private/home/public but the education is a requirement. CPS can remove a child from a home if they are not going to school.

I'd like to clarify, bodily autonomy is a right in my opinion.

I do agree fundamentally with the draft. I do agree that in certain circumstances we can/ should give up rights "for the greater good". The widening of surveillance after 9/11 for instance. I agree with it in concept but also agree it was abused and went on to long.

I trust the people that we vote for and the checks and balances in place would stop overt abuse of the system. Do i think the system is perfect? No. Do i agree with everything Democrats do in office? No. Do i agree with everything Republicans do in office? No. But the concept i agree with.

If i disagreed with a law vehemently enough, and voting/ trusting the system isn't enough i would leave the country.

As for punishments, that isn't for one person to arbitrarily decide and should always be re assessed with the times.

Ps: really making me regret using only mobile for lemmy lmao

Ahh OK. So would i be OK with someone doing something to me or a loved one against my wishes? No, but would i give blood in this case if it was a law, yes. Laws force you to do something potentially against your will.

Someone is driving a car swerving, driving erratically, and when the officer pulls them over the car smells of alchohol. The officer requests they do a breathalyzer or they go to the station for a blood test, refuse that and they lose their ability to drive for a year. They refuse everything, is it fair the officer can force them to not drive and take away their free will for a night throwing you in jail?

If that isn't the same thing fine. What about required vaccinations before a kid can go to public school? That policy is recently under more scrutiny since covid. For the greater good i think that is a good policy.

That's hard to answer. It would depend on the greater good that the forced blood donation would be for. If it is because joe billionaire needs it for some elective surgery, no. If it is for some sort of pandemic and my blood will help sure. Especially if it is like a system that incenivises the donation in some way. "Hey patient A needs blood if you donate you'll be higher up on the list for xyz" or something

The logical followup is where is that line to decide if it's "enough of a greater good" and who gets to decide? My answer to that would be people that are smarter than me and people we put in office to help make laws. Regardless of what they decide i will have an opinion about it and look to discuss it.

I also give blood quarterly anyway. Getting out of forced blood draw would be easy, recent tattoos, rusty knife of unknown origin cut your skin while you were walking, or participated in an orgy with people of questionable virtue will all get you politely asked to leave. They don't mess around with potential blood contaminants.

What about you? Yay/nay and why?

I get that, i believe i asked or infered the question earlier about when the fetus becomes a "person" is basically what this whole discussion revolves around.

You didn't want to answer the questions because while they are stupid, much like forced organ donation, they are awkward to answer and they go against "100% her body, her choice" there is a line out their that at some point aborting the fetus is "murder" what that line is? I have no idea but we have laws for things like that. Much like we have laws that can force you to do things you don't want to do for the health of others and yourself, go to jail if you are a violent criminal, go to the psych ward, court mandated therapy etc. At some point you shouldn't be able to abort a child. You want to you want to abort a child for the first, second, third, up to the fifth month? Sure no questions six and seven? Kinda pushing it in my mind eighth or ninth? Kinda seems rediculous to me.

You are right i don't know a lot about pregnancy I'm not a doctor, I've never given birth. Just what i read and have seen from friends/ family and being their for them during their recoveries.

At this point i think we are going in circles in the discussion, I'd be happy to continue but i don't see the point. I hope you have a great week and thanks for taking the time to have a semi civil conversation with me about a very charged subject.

The person in need of the kidney has a right to life and your refusal infringes on it. If you're willing to tell women they must risk their health for a potential child, you should approve of the government forcing you to risk your health for a person who needs it. It's just a balance of rights, is it not?

I would disagree here. Their right to life cannot infringe upon my rights. In my opinion that is a different scenario. I can understand if you disagree.

You are saying that a woman in full control of her facilities and in no danger of medical complications one day before her due date should be able to abort the fetus? What about giving birth half way babies head is out of the mother, can abort the baby? What about still connected before they cut the umbilical cord? Still able to abort?

"you can't remove this from your body in the safest way possible" is infringing on that.

Ahh so in my opinion, that is the crux of our different stances. I have the belief that everyone has their rights until it infringes upon my rights or the rights of others. To me, in my opinion, at some point that fetus becomes a child/person and has rights of its own, now i don't know when that is i would say 3rd trimester maybe? again in my opinion. So unless there is danger to the mother or child eventually at some point the mother should bring the child to term. I think if you hit that 7th month you should know if you want to keep the baby and bring it to term. Whether you give the child up for adoption or raise it yourself is another matter entirely.

If someone needs a kidney and you are match for them, would you support the government forcing you to donate one of yours?

No, now what does that have to do with this?

Why say what specifically?

As for who decides what makes sense, purple that are smarter than me, people that we vote into office, and hopefully the experts that we see when we go in for medical care.

And if some angry twat spouts lies like women are aborting at 9 months just for fun and that they'll stop that, whats to stop you from voting for an idiot like that because you both don't know what you're talking about?

Nothing is to stop me or anyone else from voting. Or should anyway. Nice job calling me an idiot i suppose. What specific position am i defending that has you do up in arms? What have i done other than mistakenly end my first comment in this thread with a period Instead of a question mark? I seriously want to know. As someone raised republican and now a Democrat, and a card carrying member of the church of satan, that donates to them every year, what position am i defending?

As for homophobic joke... I'm not a fan of women i don't know touching my butt, men i don't know touching my butt, or really anyone i don't know touching my butt.

When that teenage girl, i think of 14, from Ohio had to cross state lines to get an abortion because she was raped, i was appalled to hear of people saying "well there is no records of her being restored so obviously it's a political stunt".

Jesus fucking Christ people, put down your fucking pitch forks and try having a conversation with people. That's the only way you are going to change minds. Stop going to war and have civil discourse.

I know it's OK to be wrong, I've made many mistakes in life. But having my opinions on these matters is not one of them.

It wasn't a dodge it got my point across. "Do women, in full possession of their faculties and well informed about their options, have bodily autonomy?"

Yes they do.

You will have to excuse me, i do not understand your meaning behind "forced organ donation" in this context, could you explain that?

I believe i already started my within reason for lgbtq+ rights. I support them until they infringe upon my rights. The same as how i support other religions/races/genders/little people i support their causes as long as they don't infringe upon my rights.

As for explain the joke, no, I'm not going to. You may not find it humerous and maybe it's just not a great translation to text.

You may believe i don't support these causes, and that is your right, i do believe i support them and agree with them within reason and that is my right.

Do women have bodily autonomy? No. My mom should not be able to go and hurt herself too the point of being hospitalized/instatutionalized. So no blanket body autonomy. At some point people that know more about the subject than me should step in for the health of those involved.

That is the same thing for abortion. As long as the health of everyone involved is taken into consideration that is all i care about. The tricky question is when is the fetus considered a person? I don't have an answer to that.

The "dont touch my butt" statement is a joke. You/they live their lives how they want. Just don't infringe upon my life and my rights aka "dont touch my butt". You want to go march at a gay parade? Sure. I've joined one in California. I've lived with lesbians, very good friends, fell out of touch recently thanks for reminding me to reach out.

Edit: and if you read my comments, never once have i said she should not have gotten an abortion. I just asked questions and expressed my reservations

I didn't say the abortions needed to make sense to me, they need to make sense to the people involved. Will i have an opinion on the matter sure. Does my opinion matter? No. If i disagree i will vote to put people into office that will hopefully vote the way i want on things. If more people vote the other way and my guy/gal doesn't win? That sucks try again another time.

And fuck my delicate ill placed sensibilities. I'm just here having a conversation. Expressing my thoughts, opinions, in a hopefully civil discourse.

Fair, i mean to some extent right. But an abortion on a fetus that is 9 months along would be to late right? Or not? If there is no harm to the baby or mother, how far along in your opinion is to far for an abortion?

I'm pro choice within reason. Pro lgbtq+ within reason. You enjoy your life just don't touch my butt.

I'm advocating for abortions that make sense, i meant pro choice but pro abortion is fine too. As long as it doesn't endanger the mother.

I'm an advocate for adoption, I'm adopted. All of that fucking sucks right? Not having money, chance for issues because of a young mother, mental health issues. Who doesn't have mental health issues these days? Why wait 4-5 months? There are agencies that help people go across state lines to get abortions.

I have not given birth or been on the receiving end of investigations like this. But you are telling me going through 4-5 more months of carrying the baby to term would do more harm to this young lady than the invesigation process, wondering if you will get caught, getting caught, and then 90 days in jail would be better for her?

I think this whole thing is a shit situation and I'm sad to see them get sent to jail for something they could do legally in another state but endangering herself would not be what i would have done personally.

She is a teenager but she is 19, not 13/14/15. She is an adult