BlitzoTheOisSilent

You're saying we can't believe voters

I have repeatedly been talking about non-voters: those who stayed home.

Blame the repub voters, sure, I guess, and there's no reason to blame dem voters.

But don't blame non-voters for failing to be won over by a centrist platform that shows an unconditional backing of a fascist authoritarian and his genocide. Blame it on the DNC, Harris, and Biden. They made the choice to not actively support a genocide, or chose not to support a slow march to fascism versus a fast one, or whatever other nonsense reason you think justifies your world view.

Now understand mine: the liberals have told the left/progressive side since 2016 that it's both their fault, and that if they get their support in 2020, they'll be willing to start supporting progressive policies.

The voting base took a vocal stand on genocide, to reiterate, genocide, demanding their party move left on the issue. With Democracy on the line, and years of bad political capital with their progressive/left voting base, the DNC opted to continue unconditional support for genocide. Being perpetuated by a fascist leader, who worked with their fascist opponent during the campaign.

They didn't ask for $40/hr minimum wage, they didn't demand free puppies for everyone or some unrealistic ideal. They wanted compromise on genocide, and the DNC said no. The DNC waved off a good chunk of their voting base and were surprised when they actually took a stand.

Non voters didn't have a choice, like you keep saying. They had opposite sides of the same coin, and as I pointed out above when talking about how their pundits are screaming about wokism and trans people and the left side of the party, are blaming anyone but themselves.

If they acknowledged their own faults, sure, I'd entertain your argument. Or if it was something like M4A being a significant wedge issue for voters or something, sure, because it's not genocide. But they, and you, keep doubling down on unquestioned support of the least evil being the only correct choice.

I'm saying that's wrong, those who abstained from voting for either are at least cleansed of actively supporting a genocide, regardless of whatever their actual individual reason was. And acting like choosing the least evil makes you right is exactly the liberal condescension non voters are tired of.

It assumes that your moral definition of the world is the only correct one, arguing for the greater good (which I would argue should have come from the DNC not supporting a genocide unconditionally first) while dismissing an individual's own definition. To assume your position is to assume that your world view, and er go, your interpretation of the world, is the only correct one.

Like I said, Democracy was on the line, so why couldn't the DNC compromise one policy for their voting base? They compromised on fracking, didn't show support for M4A, showed support for continuing border security as is, etc. So why not genocide? Why was that a line in the sand for them despite vocal opposition from their voting base?

Drag got it yet? You're not morally superior for supporting a genocide, and that's only one of many reasons someone may have chosen not to support either candidate. And they're all valid, but the blame doesn't go to them. It goes to the DNC who thought it better to turn right and try to win moderates as the Republican-lite candidate instead of tapping into 60% of the voting base that doesn't vote. It goes to the DNC who couldn't ensure that "did Biden drop out" wasn't going to be one of the most searched things on election day with better messaging during the campaign.

But no, let's keep blaming them, and insulting and condescending and acting superior to them, the non voter, because they didn't understand Democracy was on the line and wouldn't compromise for the greater good. I understand you want to assign them blame, but that needs to be directed back at the DNC. So two-fold blame on the DNC for drag.

because you don't know what drag means by "choice is inevitable"?

I'm doing my best to be civil, especially considering the last time you and I spoke, you called me a fascist nazi Trump supporter who wanted drag and drag's friends all dead, despite me also being LGBTQ, a veteran, and having voted for Harris.

So no, I'm not debating your supposed enlightened imagined moral superiority because you only see the binary of "choice: liberalism (diet fascism) or fascism." I get it "choice is inevitable," "by choosing not to choose, you've made a choice," "I am so very enlightened because I passed an introductory college course on philosophy."

We get it, drag, you're arguing that the choice of not choosing is the worst choice because you've not supported the least worst choice, and therefore de facto supported the worst choice. That's your argument, right, with some lengthy and convulated nonsense about the morality around the choices that are thrust into our lap and the unfairness of life and the responsibility on the individual (the individual voters, of course, not the individuals unconditionally supporting s genocide) to make the least-bad choice no matter what.

Did I get it? That's your argument in a nutshell, right, which is why the Democrats and their party leadership are absolved of all wrongdoing and all of the blame and guilt belongs at the feet of those who didn't vote? Or does this apply to third parties too? We'll just assume it does.

Life isn't like that, and drag can keep doubling down on those who didn't vote being the most guilty, or drag can understand that that is just further disenfranchising a large demographic of non-voters that the Democrats clearly need to turn out for them. And drag doesn't get to cherry pick which policies they support of their candidate, you support them and all of their ideals.

So they stayed home, that's their choice, and there's no guilt in that. But keep blaming them, like I said before, I'm sure that's winning people over to your morally just and superior cause.

Unfortunately, we don't all have the choice to jump ship. 🤷‍♀️

I didn't want to write another 11 paragraphs that you'd just complain about.

You can't see fascism for what it is, when it's standing in front of you, and still act like you are morally superior to anyone.

Got it, drag. You do you, still waiting for you to say anything of note beyond "choosing not to choose is the worstest choice." You got anything else?

Anything about how supporting a genocide unconditionally despite public outcry isn't fascism? Or is that a branch of liberalism I'm unfamiliar with? Hence diet-fascism and fascism, from before, in one of the many pages of comments I wrote.

Fascism or liberalism, but you've got the spirit.

Yeah, we're done.

Harris/Biden: show unconditional support to fascist leader of Israel during his genocide of Palestinians.

You: That's not fascism, that's liberalism.

Sure.

Voters aren't obligated to vote, candidates are supposed to earn votes by showing their ideas and policies are worth supporting.

So where's the benefit in supporting a genocide?

Keep letting them march us right and condescending to a base of voters who are telling you what they want/expect because you have some imagined notion of moral superiority you think you have for supporting the lesser evil. Keep ignoring everything I'm telling you and how this looks to voters like myself, and acting like no, no, you know best.

No, I understand your point, and you're completely missing mine.

You're saying people are obligated to choose diet fascism or fascism, and those who chose are absolved of guilt while those who abstained aren't. I'm saying they're not, and to blame them for anything is ridiculous, the blame is on the Democrats.

And what would their action have sparked even had they voted? The US just walked back their threats regarding further aid to Israel. According to third party organizations like the UN, Israel hasn't improved aid access in Gaza, but the US just announced they'll be sending more weapons to Israel anyway.

So where's the least harm, Netanyahu got what he wanted regardless of the clearly toothless threat (and literal virtue signaling to their base to win votes) from the Democrats? The genocide continues, but you're going to tell yourself your hands are clean because you chose the least harm?

We support a genocide, drag, we have no moral superiority over those who didn't support it. Blame Harris and the Dems, where the blame lies, and be angry you were put in this position to begin with. The Democrats are supposed to be better than this, and have no excuse not to have been. And they lost because of it, hold them accountable, not non-voters who need to be won over, not condescended to and scolded.

You should probably write 11 more paragraphs on how everyone who voted against genocide is a nazi, just in case somebody didn't read your first two screenfuls of text

So just not going to try to address any of what I had to say with your own thoughts, opinions, or evidence? Just going to snidely make a comment about how I write as if your brevity somehow makes you right?

There's that elitist, liberal entitlement the average American loves to see from the DNC. 👍 Keep winning over voters, drag, you're doing God's work.

I haven't seen you explain to me how supporting Israel's genocide unconditionally doesn't make Harris and Biden fascist, unless I missed it scrolling by my two "screenfuls" of text. 🙄

I wasn't fired, but I resigned from a brewery/coffee shop I worked at after only 7 shifts. Context: I'm trans and in the closet still.

Hired as a cook for this brewery, and based on the interview, I'm one of the more "experienced" cooks on the team, and they (owners) were hoping I'd be able to help make the kitchen more professional. It's a part-time gig, so sure, I'll do what I can.

Well, the kitchen was too small for the facility. They would have to stop taking orders on busy nights an hour before close because they didn't have the space to get through the 40+ orders that came in within 5 minutes of each other. Orders from both the bar, the cafe they had, and to go orders.

They're menu was fine, surprisingly, they didn't stretch themselves too thin. But the staff were... Rough. The kitchen supervisor couldn't believe I owned a chef's coat, nevermind actually showed up to work in one since everyone just wore t-shirts (no aprons, as far as I could find). I told the owners they should have chef coats, it's a safety thing, etc, idk if that ever happened.

Anyway, the kitchen supe would spend 90% of the shift video chatting with various friends/family/etc during his shift, loudly dropping the n-word every other word while we're cooking and cleaning and prepping. All on the line, not even in an office or something, in the middle of the kitchen. I've had managers who are lazy, that's fine, but I've never had one that unprofessional.

There were like 2-3 shifts though where the bulk of the conversation amongst the kitchen staff were LGBTQ+ focused: I'm not sure I could love my daughter if she was a lesbian, I don't understand this stuff, it's a mental illness, trans people, etc. If it had happened once, fine, whatever. But over 2-3 different shifts, and the supervisor is taking part? No, I'm not cool with that.

My last shift, I'm annoyed and pretty over my coworkers based on their views I got to listen to, but trying to just get through it. I'm working the deep fryer, reheating some chicken wings. Pull the basket up and grab the thermometer to temp them when the supervisor calls over, "Oh, no, you don't need to temp those, they're already cooked!"

I pulled him aside after and asked him about that, and he goes, "Yeah, we already cooked them to 165°F before we cooled and stored them. You've just gotta get em heated up again, you don't have to temp them."

I send an almost 2-page long resignation to the owners the next day, explaining that I did not appreciate the conversations taking place in the kitchen and the opinions about people my coworkers had, people who may very well he standing in the room with them.

But I really harped on the fact that the kitchen supervisor, the supervisor, didn't seem to be familiar with health code policies. Any good that's already been cooked and then cooled must be brought back to 165°F when being reheated, that's, like, one of those food safety things every pro cook should know, nevermind a supervisor.

I advised they may want to send their supervisors for food safety retraining before they made a customer sick, and that there were too many issues within the kitchen for me to help them without basically cleaning house and starting over.

"It's a big club, folks, and you ain't in it." - George Carlin

But yeah, I said that months ago and was downvoted for it. None of their lives are going to be affected by any of this, any of this fascism coming through. That'll be for us poors to bear, the wealthy don't hurt the wealthy. It's the only honor amongst them.

How come it's everyone's responsibility not to vote for genocide

Because it's genocide... Do you think the victims care if the person sending Netanyahu his bombs has a D or R next to their name?

but you're allowed to abstain for genocide as much as you want if you can point the finger at a politician?

Yeah, that's how the right to vote works. Can you point to the voters who are holding a gun to Biden's head and forcing him to support a fascist leader and his genocide?

Can you point to the voters who held a gun to Kamala's head and forced her to adopt the same policy on Israel that Biden's administration has adhered to? Despite it being incredibly unpopular among his party's voting base?

Like, it's 100% Kamala's fault you let Trump win and you therefore have zero culpability,

I voted for Harris, and my state went to Harris, so no, I did not "let Trump win."

But yeah dude, it's 100% Harris' fault. You don't get to support a genocide and then try to play morally superior to your fascist opponent who supports the same genocide...

And you don't get to complain that it's the voter's fault that they wouldn't support a candidate who wouldn't denounce genocide, or even commit to just not supporting it like the admin she's part of is.

Would y'all be defending the genocide and Harris/Biden's unconditional support of it if it resulted in a draft for Americans, but not necessarily yourself? Or better yet, if you were a Palestinian in Palestine, would you be begging America to vote for Harris because of LGBTQ+ rights, or the economy's soft landing? Or would you be asking them why they won't elect someone who won't support a genocide?

but the voters who tried to prevent that are personally to blame for Joe Biden's failures.

I'm not blaming voters, period. They were given the choice between Diet Fascism or Fascism, and I don't blame anyone for sitting that out. I fully acknowledged that regardless of my choice, I was supporting a genocide, and those lives are now at my feet.

But to act like voters have any fault in this is laughable. The DNC laid down with dogs and were shocked when they got up covered in fleas. They gave Republicans numerous spots to speak at their convention, but none to the Palestinian Democrats that the Uncommitted Movement requested be allowed to speak.

What do you call a table of 10 people sitting down with a Nazi?

11 Nazis.

This is what I've been trying to get across to the people screeching about anyone who didn't vote versus voting for Harris (I voted for Harris, just fyi, begrudgingly).

Voters were vocally and publically opposed to the genocide in Palestine being aided by the Biden admin, but the DNC would not back down, making these half-ass "Well, if Israel crossed the fifth line we drew, ooh, they're really in for it this time! That next phone call, I'm gonna use the F word!"

Voters were making their concerns and their internal conflict known online, and they were either outright attacked for being a Trump supporter (y'know, instead of a human being trying to weigh which lives matter more in their voting decision). Or, you were told that we just had to bite the bullet "one more time," and then this time we'll be able to get the party to listen to us, and start to move in progressive directions.

But when you pointed out that there was no way to know the DNC would actually listen based on 2016 and 2020, and the fact the longer the campaign went on the further right Harris and her policies shifted... You were dismissed and screamed at for being a Trump supporter.

And this just proves to me that the DNC was never, has never, and will never compromise with their voting base on anything. Period. Even now, what are DNC pundits going on the news and saying? "The voters failed us, the DNC went too far left this election, the voters are tired of "wOkE" policies, I've even heard two Democratic politicians throw trans people under the bus.

The party of supposed LGBTQ+ lost an election and immediately turned on one of the most marginalized groups of their voting base.

But no, no, they'll totally listen to us after we get them elected and give them over a billion dollars in campaign money. 🙄

and whether they did the right thing.

So the Democrats were doing the right thing by continuing to unapologetically support a fascist foreign leader in his continued Genocide?

Regardless of who anyone voted for, they voted to support a genocide, and it's 100% on the Democrats to even put people in that position to begin with. "You can't vote Trump, he's a fascist! He'll support a genocide!"

Voters: Like... You are?

Dems: ...well that's different!!!

This is not about finding the one person or group who bears sole responsibility and pointing the finger at them to excuse everyone else. This is about what each person has within their control, and whether they did the right thing.

There is no "right" thing because every single person will define it differently. To me, the right thing is supporting the working class and not supporting a fascist genocide. To you, "right" is "stop fascism, no matter what." To another commenter, "right" might be choosing to abstain from voting because none of the candidates represent the direction or policies you feel are most important.

To Republicans, the "right" thing is to establish a christofascist autocracy. Or it's to stop the dirty Dems. Or it's to stop abortion.

So "right" is irrelevant, the "right" thing to do was for the Democrats to actually listen to the American people and the policies that are popular to them, and then rally that energy into a larger voter turnout. That was the only right thing to do, especially when a loss will result in fascism.

You don't get to lecture the voters about not understanding the "right" thing to do when the leaders of the political party that's supposed to be the last bastion against fascism honestly seemed to phone the whole fucking thing in. And this stems from the entitlement that I've been ranting about the DNC having for years. You aren't entitled to anyone's vote, regardless of "right v wrong" as far as candidates are concerned.

The Dems needed to earn their votes, and they decided a centrist campaign based on the promise that nothing will be substantially different from the last Dem who Americans feel (whether they're right or not is irrelevant) hasn't improved their lives substantially. Americans want change, and the Dems could do nothing during "tHe MoSt ImPoRtAnT eLeCtIoN oF oUr LiFeTiMeS" than promise the American people 4 more years of the status quo.

Dem Leaders: Wow, we had record voter turnout in 2020 running Biden on policies that Bernie had initially run on, progressive policies that seemed popular among the base! So what should our strategy be to stop fascism in 2024?

Dem Consultants: Eh, just rerun the 2016 playbook and send out 30 texts a day begging for money. We only raised over a billion dollars, we don't need to spend that on studies and polls to find out what policies would get us voters, nah. It's Trump, he's a fascist moron that got trounced in 2020, we got this in the bag.