We will have to close some zoos
this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2023
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Celebrating the UK trade deal? The one that Eustice described as "not very good"?
Eustice is useless. I prefer the experts' opinion...
Would you also accept the National Farmers Union as experts? If so I have some bad news.
Or this expert, with a rather balanced view. https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/2022/03/04/the-uk-australia-fta-can-we-call-it-a-good-deal/
The UK Australia trade deal looks more like it was signed to score political points at home than something that benefits Britain in any major way.
Not really, they're a lobbyist group.
Please explain why an Australian farmer would bother selling beef for less than they can get for it in Asia?
And from your link
Overall, the value of the UK-Australia FTAs lies mostly in the geopolitical tilt towards the Asia-Pacific region and the CPTPP rather than in its economic value to the UK economy
Which one? NFU or Lawsociety? Or both?
Yeah, like I said, no real benefit to Britain, other than to show that the gov't is capable to sign deals, thin as they are, to score some political points at home.
The NFU is an insurance company and lobbyist. The Law Society is just that, a professional association. Governed by royal charter, it has a duty to public interest. The NFU does not. It's a lobby group for fat landowners.
So, no real benefit, other than to high margin, high skill, professional services exports?
They're both lobby groups, don't kid yourself.
So, the benefits are the ones that Britain gave up with 27 countries in order to sign it with one on the other side of the world?
If you throw away Β£1000 and then find Β£1, it's that a benefit? I don't see it that way.
I'm not kidding myself, they are very different businesses. The agribusiness lobby is a lot more harmful to the environment than the Law Society is. There are just more common law countries outside the EU for legal exports. That's a fact, and an opportunity.
And no, we exited the political union, no reason that economic ties can't be improved now the brexit ultras are soon to be gone.
Over 90% of UK companies didn't export to the EU anyway while we were in it.
Plus:
They are very different businesses, I agree, but don't believe for a second that Law Society isn't a lobby group.
What was stopping UK businesses from selling to companies outside the EU27 before? Were UK law professionals prevented from selling services to Australia before this deal? How?
I'm certain that the economic ties between the EU and the UK can be improved. I think it's called "dynamic alignment" and as soon as the UK signs up to it a lot of barriers to trade will go away.
You're also correct that the vast majority of UK companies didn't export to the EU. It's a bit weird phrasing it like that though, when over 40% of the UKs export goes there. And like you point out in the link you provided, supply chains are sensitive to disruption, which is why they're worried about the rules of origin.
I voted to get out of the CAP. Legal lobbying isn't really of concern to me. Especially as the two legal systems are so different. Civil vs Common law.
The UK was unable to negotiate a trade deal with Australia while in the EU. Being part of the EU means sacrificing sovereignty in those matters. The EU trade deals are much more focused on goods than services. The UK is 80% services, so it's a benefit to be able to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK.
The UK was unable to negotiate a trade deal with Australia while in the EU. Being part of the EU means sacrificing sovereignty in those matters. The EU trade deals are much more focused on goods than services. The UK is 80% services so itβs a benefit to be able to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK.
That's true. Trade deals that the EU signs have to benefit everybody or they won't get approved by the members. That means that every single trade deal that the EU signed with the UK as a member had the UKs approval. But now that the UK can sign their own, they signed on that politicians agree "isn't very good" (Eustice) or "one sided" (Sunak) and that UK experts are at best lukewarm about, so how does that benefit Britain?
What is it that the UK can do in Australia now, with this new trade deal, that was impossible before 2021?
On the other hand, the Australians seem happy, so at least there's that.
Well it's better than a failed trade deal isn't it? Like the EU and Australia one...
All the UK trade deals have gone further on digital and services than the EU ones did. They are either better suited to the UK economy or are being agreed in preparation for CPTPP accession.
As for the deal:
It will remove most tariffs on trade between the UK and Australia when it comes into force. The UK market for some agricultural goods will be opened to Australia more gradually.
Other provisions cover trade in services, digital trade, public procurement and intellectual property.
UK citizens aged under 35 will be able to travel and work in Australia more easily.
There are provisions covering technical barriers to trade, and sanitary & phytosanitary (SPS) measures relating to food safety and animal and plant health.
There are chapters on small business, the environment, and animal welfare and antimicrobial resistance.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9484/
Well itβs better than a failed trade deal isnβt it? Like the EU and Australia oneβ¦ Is it? If you can't agree on something that both think is beneficial why would you want a deal? Unless it's to show that you're a big boy now and can sign your own trade deals? Didn't brexiteers use to say "No deal is better than a bad deal" or something like that?
All the UK trade deals have gone further on digital and services than the EU ones did. They are either better suited to the UK economy or are being agreed in preparation for CPTPP accession. So what is it that the UK can do with "digital and services" now that the agreement was signed, that was impossible before? Is the deal really "better suited for the UK" when it's described as "not very good" and "one sided"? I think you're right that it was signed for political, rather than economic reasons.
All the things you bring up as benefits of the UK/Australia deal are things that the UK had as members of the EU. So, giving up that for a market that accounts for over 40% of your exports in order to be able to sign it with a market that accounts for around 2.5% isn't really a smart move, is it?
As I said, over 90% of UK firms didn't export to the EU. Over 75% of Brits emigrated outside the EU.
Not giving anything up if you don't use it.
The CAP accounts for the largest share of the EU budget. I care that it has fucked the environment more than I give a shit about losing roaming data and pet passports.
As I said, over 90% of UK firms didnβt export to the EU. Over 75% of Brits emigrated outside the EU. Over 40% of exports. Doesn't matter if it's only one company that exports if it's 40% of UK exports. Why do you keep using that number when it's clearly irrelevant? What does emigration have to do with this? Is it easier to emigrate to Australia after the UK-Aus trade deal?
Not giving anything up if you donβt use it. Make up your mind. Either the benefits you listed are benefits or they're not. Also people were using the right to live and work in the EU, and people had to give them up. And you keep ignoring my question about what it is that the UK can do/sell to Australia now that wasn't possible before.
The CAP accounts for the largest share of the EU budget. I care that it has fucked the environment more than I give a shit about losing roaming data and pet passports. Hang on, you're against the CAP because of environmental concerns, but think that Australia is doing all right when it comes to environmental protections? Boy do I have some bad news for you.
Exports are at an all time high, a few shitty industries like beauty have lost some business. Who gives a shit about make-up! The planet is being destroyed.
Is it easier to emigrate to Australia after the UK-Aus trade deal?
Yes, for under 35s. Where people emigrate is obviously relevant... the majority didn't use FOM. You can still spend 9 months in the EU every year...
The trade deal goes further on digital and services than the EU does. Same for Japan, Singapore and New Zealand... there is now a delta between before and after brexit, do you really not get this?
And no, Australian wine is better than French, but we've not changed any food standards that would allow hormone treated beef to be imported, and you still haven't answered why Australia would sell at a lower price further away. Beef is Β£16 per kilo in Singapore versus Β£8 in the UK.