this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2023
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Communism

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On lemmy.world I posted a comment on how liberals use 'tankie' as an invective to shut down dialogue and received tons of hateful replies. I tried to respond in a rational way to each. Someone's said 'get educated' I responded 'Im reading Norman Finkelstein's I'll burn that bridge when I get there' and tried to keep it civil.

They deleted every comment I made and banned me. Proving my point, they just want to shut down dialogue. Freedom of speech doesn't existing in those 'totalitarian' countries right? But in our 'enlightened' western countries we just delete you.

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[–] [email protected] 74 points 1 year ago

It's why it's really funny that there's a decent amount of libs trying to pretend that Lemmy (either .ml or as a whole) is this super "tankie" thing when they're really the opposite

Like, if the rest of the Lemmy universe was "tankie" we wouldn't need Lemmygrad in the first place

[–] [email protected] 70 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is liberal mental space, full of "freedom of speech". Liberalism is a cancer which leads to right extremism. And social democracy leads to liberalism. If you exclude ML from discourse, you eliminate whole left wing point of view consequently.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As Hakim or Yugopnik (I can't remember exactly) said, "tankie" is the new "commie"

[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yugopnik I think from memory. He was saying how libs can't say "commie" because its such a dated word and nobody takes it seriously (except some conservatives who still say it unironically which is actually hilarious😂). It's too much associated with redscare era propaganda. Tankie doesn't carry this baggage but has exactly the same function.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also Hakim, in his newest video.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

ah cool didn't realise

[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago (9 children)

We should call liberals coupies because of all their coups.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

cool idea but i think this gives them too much credit. libs blindly support every war and blindly swallow every hot distraction, while believing they do neither. i think it is too kind to focus on just the coups.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If someone calls me a tankie I roll my eyes, but what makes my blood boil is the term "red fascist." What the actual F? I would have been in a fascist concentration camp for at least 3 reasons

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No need to resort to suppositions; just look at Thälmann.

The term of "red fascist" is not only (purposefully) insulting to the memory of actual MLs who came under repression and execution from the hands of fascists (and ignoring that in many fascist states they were the forefront of resistance against it, see: the PCE under francoist Spain), but also dangerous as it blurs fascism as a word with a meaning, making actual fascism harder to identify and, thus, to combat.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's a reason why fascism has to be redefined, blurred, or otherwise trivialized. Most libs don't do it on purpose but they serve reaction by doing so. If we actually learned the true socio-economic definition of fascism we'd very quickly realize that the golden billion live in nations which are arguably fascist.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

Fascist or 'authoritarian' even. I asked for their definition so we couldn't at least have some ground to debate on but yeah, naw. It's just throwing memes. And I again reiterate the US is absolutely authoritarian. Prison population? Through the roof. Cop city? Murder protestors. War? Total media and popular support even to the tune of one trillion dollars a year.

1000000000000 dollars

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Coming smugly from the people who have historically always allied with the fascists, it's a special kind of disgusting.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago

Sometimes it kind of of makes me feel really irritated in a way because like, a lot of these people who are so overly concerned over "tankies", don't have that energy directed at fascists or reactionaries? They seem more concerned over "tankies" than reactionaries or fascists who are in power in various places and are hurting people. Like they will make a post or whatever denouncing "tankies", but where is that towards fascists? or reactionaries? If anything all they do is help fascists and reactionaries whether they are aware of that or not.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I’ve talked about this before, albeit the topic was about self‐identified anticommunists, but I am sorry to say that it applies to a lot of leftoid noobs as well. Anybody who poses obviously loaded questions like ‘why is it being a “lib” to say that governments who repress the human rights and civil liberties of minorities are not practicing leftism in good faith? the same governments who have horrifically and violently crushed workers rights movements?’ does not need to be dignified with a serious response. You can’t make these bipeds educate themselves no matter how good your evidence is; it simply isn’t a matter that’s within your hands.

Do something else: unionize, agitate for better working conditions, exercise, train with a weapon, do some volunteer work, contribute to volunteers (like Food Not Bombs), or engage with communists or communist sympathizers who are very clearly asking in good faith. Personally, I spend my most productive time studying modern history, and I’ve amassed a respectable répertoire of knowledge. I can confidently say that you’ll learn more about capitalism in decay from me than you’ll ever learn from any horseshoe theorist or dullards saying ‘red fash’ unjokingly.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Basically, get offline. Every single conversation I've had about communism in person, I can at least get people to view communist history from a rational perspective less clouded by propaganda. Even if they don't "agree" they can at least respect it and can marinate on it later.

Online arguments with liberals are pointless. At least the arguments on lemmygrad are mostly good faith and even if there are disagreements there's a lot of learning that happens. Arguing on mainstream liberal forums just opens you to being brigades by bots, reactionaries, and people who are participating in bad faith to begin with.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It's also happens when liberals talk about foreign policy. The reduce critics of US foreign policy and NATO "America bad." Which is exactly as reductive as the hyperbolic critique they're trying to make.

A lot of this comes from the community from the streamer whose name starts with the v and who used to go by Irish Lassie. His community is especially toxic when it comes to using the term tankie as a pejorative.

And they don't even keep the smear to people that support the Bolsheviks. They've been saying that about Noam Chomsky and Jeremy corbyn and basically anyone that has been critical of NATO in the last few years.

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I got 11 upvotes on a Ho Chi Minh quote in the clown shoes thread. Was that all you guys?

[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I see it got deleted. Ho Chi Minh should have known better and organize Vietnam's liberation from colonialism through confederated and horizontally-organized municipal communes, I suppose.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago

Can they delete this?

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago

One of them was me. Love your username BTW

[–] coralof 42 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Liberals are incapable of intelligent conversation with others, especially those of opposing viewpoints. They've been trained to desire and maintain the status quo (Capital), even in the face of creeping fascism, and will parrot insults at anyone who doesn't tow the line. 'Tankie' is just the newest term.

It's just western red scare paranoia with a millennial twist. I hadn't peeked at those communities before, but I'll make sure they're given a wide berth now.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago (3 children)

omg i just had the misfortune of wandering into this thread, https://lemmygrad.ml/post/806853 i am so glad we have our own space where we can safely laugh at these fools. omg.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Holy shit what an insufferable group.

"Define Tankie"

Red fascist

Who defines a buzzword with a buzzword ffs.

Also! (Paraphrasing)

[...] people who justify genocides. [...]

'scuze me what the fuck? Who here says genocides are cool and good actually? We are like the first fuckers to point them out and scream about them???

And even more!

Comrade Spood

Now that's dose of Anarcho-Debilizm let me tell you. "Just press the communism button Xi and we'll succeed no problem! They will just let us exist and everyone will love each other :3"

And it just still keeps going!

Educate yourself. / Please change and grow as a person. / Read a book.

Motherfuckers I read too much compared to your sorry asses.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Educate yourself. / [...] / Read a book.

Their education:

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I refuse to believe there's actually 1.6gb of anarchist literature in existence that's not supplemented with lots of random unpublished PDFs and saved blog posts that are rife with poor grammar and spelling errors.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

It could be a bunch of breadtube videos.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"I have" doesn't mean "I've read", what a pretentious dumbass.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Who here says genocides are cool and good actually

I say that Mao's landlords genocide was pretty neat actually. Please don't tell the libs.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Yeah it was torture. I tried to keep it civil and lighthearted and actually engage but they are so programmed it's almost knee jerk comment reaction at this point.

Also fun and great that so many Lemmy instances won't federate material that threatens their worldview. I mean, I'm 100% anti Nazi anti fascist and anti authoritarian but what does that even matter right? How dare I say there might be a different way to view say Cuba China Vietnam or North Korea...

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And I had the misfortune of not resisting to participate in it. Do not recommend.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

oh dear. I told myself i wouldn't engage. (narrator: but he engaged). Just trying to gently nudge an anarchist towards materialist analysis, i'll try resist getting sucked into any arguments for my own sake.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Like moths flying into a bug zapper: we know it will hurt, but we just cannot help it.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago

I mean, in the end it is kinda hilarious how hard they will push strawman arguments and just outright ad hominem attack to defend what? Their ambiguous ivvective terminology? LoL I shall call thee a spoon. You, my internet interlocutor are a spoon. Wide at the top fillable with soup or antifreeze. It matters not. You are a spoon.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (55 children)

Go ahead liberals. Call me a tankie. See if I give one ten thousandth of a fuck. Literally such a low-tier insult. “Uhh its like… uh…you support this large cool looking machine that stopped Color Revolutions and was responsible for Liberating the Eastern Front during World War II” “Yea, I do😐” “😨”

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Liberals once again refusing to acknowledge their hippocracy. They must be fuming after Comrade Hakim's latest video

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Hakim is so on point. Brilliant video.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

By the way, it seems that moderators in 196 are deleting those comments from lemmygrad posters in a way that appear as visible while seen from lemmygrad while they appear as deleted by mods from any other instances (or so I suppose, I do not know very well how does Lemmy work). This is happening even if there is no breaking of rules in sight.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago

I just need a bot that blocks any user that used the word. Problem is it would block all if you here.

I dislike hateful talk, and it includes "tankie"

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