this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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ErgoMechKeyboards

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Ergonomic, split and other weird keyboards

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Posts must be of/about keyboards that have a clear delineation between the left and right halves of the keyboard, column stagger, or both. This includes one-handed (one half doesn't exist, what clearer delineation is that!?)

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¹ split meaning a separation of the halves, whether fixed in place or entirely separate, both are fine.
² ortholinear meaning keys layed out in a grid

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209
Rolio 0.1 Pre-Release (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by MickiusMousius to c/ergomechkeyboards
32 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I've made the 0.1 design available to the public now.

Ive been using it for a few weeks myself and its quite nice to use, particularly with the aluminium chassis (the GitHub repo has FDM and CNC designs).

In any case, for those curious the GitHub is here: https://github.com/MickiusMousius/RolioKeyboard

I am working on the V1.0 model, PCB's should arrive in a few days. I think the V1.0 release should be good enough for others to make. The current model is nice, but there are a lot of improvements in the pipeline particularly regarding aesthetics.

V1.0 sample below:

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's so awesome. In amazed you've put it all out there for others to sell. I'm sure it's going to show up on AliExpress pre-made soon. I'd happily buy this.

[–] MickiusMousius 7 points 1 year ago

Thanks.

I think it’d be great if they started showing up on AliExpress.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is a super cool keyboard. I love the “roller”. I could be tempted to make one of these if it had the number row.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Exactly this. I need a number row for work or gaming which limits the split and ergo keyboard options significantly.

[–] siegvar 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Does the Lily58 or Iris fit your needs better then? Or is there something else about this board that trumps those other 2?

The primary difference to me seems to be roller vs rotary encoder and number row. And while I too, prefer rollers over rotary encoders :D... if the number row is critical to your use case those boards seem to be a better option.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Iris looks good, as does the Lily58, but my ideal board for work would be a split with a trackball on the right and a scroll wheel on the left, preferably with a bit of a dactyl style tilt for better ergos. I’m pretty new to mechanical keyboards in general, so if a roller or rotary encoder is what I really need to get those, I humbly apologize for using the wrong terms.

[–] siegvar 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ah, okay good to know you've seen those. Just wanted to check in case you missed something that suited you perfectly. It sounds like you have a clear image of what your ideal keyboard would be. 👍

Also I have no idea if I'm using the terms right either but I think the roller is the same as the scroll wheel? And rotary encoders would be those dial knobs.

I'm with you on having a trackball on the right half and a scroll wheel on the left, that sounds amazing. 😁

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I can visualize it, I just don’t have the necessary skills to bring it to life. Oh, and ideally it would have hot-swappable switches, LED lighting, and be quiet so if I put in silent switches the board wouldn’t interrupt my podcast listening. You know, simple things like all of the above at a reasonable price.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@Followupquestion
Do the layer options not work for you?
@hellweaver666

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s extra key presses hundreds or thousands of times a day ( I work with numbers). I also need a 10 key, but a separate 10 key is fine. I’ve been eyeing one of the ergonomic keyboards with the trackball because the central trackball would cut my hand movement by 50% (estimated).

[–] MickiusMousius 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This one does have a “math mode”, if the numbers layer key is double tapped it locks in the numbers and other “maths buttons” until the numbers layer key is tapped again.

Next I’d like to make a macro pad that has a ten key mode for “home use” with some big rotary encoders that matches the style of the Rolio (to be called Twistio).

That said, I am tempted to make a split with a number row (Rolio Max?). If I do that then there will be enough room for a 5 way stick below the roller encoder, I couldn’t fit that in this one. But this would be more for “fun” as I quite like the Corne after having used both the Sofle and Corne.

That said, it’ll need to be much later this year, I have a CNC machine on order. I’d not want to prototype something like this again without a CNC machine of my own. The process is a bit expensive, the controllers and displays are a bit pricey too IMO (though still good value given what goes into making them).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

The “math mode” Is cool, but the Max sounds better for a mix of let’ letters and numbers. I saw a one-piece board on here with a central trackball that looked almost perfect but I really like the idea of a split because I’ve got wide shoulders so the angle of most ergo boards is still not enough to make them perfectly comfortable for me. A split with a trackball on one side and a scroll wheel on the other? That could be perfection.

[–] UndeadLeech 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's interesting to see these rollers popping up some more, especially with two posts about them in such a short period of time(https://lemmy.world/post/4760068?scrollToComments=true). They're much better than the normal rotary encoders and I've enjoyed using mine a lot. Though sourcing them is unfortunately a bit tricky (and thus on the more expensive side).

I'm currently making a new board using the Nintendo Switch joysticks to replace them, I'm curious how the two compare.

[–] MickiusMousius 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’d love to see that.

I have a design I’m tinkering with as an idea that has two 5 way sticks. The actuation force is too high IMO, but I could not find a suitable digital switch.

Are you interfacing to the switch sticks using analog or do you have some nice low power digital solution?

[–] UndeadLeech 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm using the ADC pins to make use of QMK's joystick feature. Or at least that is the plan.

[–] MickiusMousius 1 points 1 year ago

Ah, sadly I don’t have this with ZMK, going wireless very much limits what can be done. I’d love to add a small trackball for example (PIM447 maybe) but the energy budget is a big factor.

[–] drkhrse96 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Awesome looking board. Thanks for the files!

[–] MickiusMousius 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No worries, you’re very welcome.

If you’d like I can share the V1.01 files to you too. The improvements are also electrical as well as mechanical (eg some caps to smooth out the rollers). Otherwise I anticipate publishing in about 4ish weeks time.

[–] drkhrse96 2 points 1 year ago

Sure. I built a sofle a while back so I am looking for a new project to try some chocs on.

[–] TeXitoi 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's an original stagger. Why?

Otherwise, beautiful board.

[–] MickiusMousius 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks.

I took some hand measurements and this is what it came out with:

I didn’t add the splay, I started to add it, but decided that in practical terms it likely doesn’t make much difference but it made things quite unwieldy looking.

In practice I’ve found the pinky column needs to drop by about 3-4mm which is a change I have in the newest iteration.

[–] TeXitoi 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Be careful that, with this tool, you are naturally reproducing the habits you already have. I've seen this tool used by Ben Vallack (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoBjVhJY4io&list=PLCZYyvXAdQpsEWfa6OEBOhHn48SWgneoD) and you can see, in his progression, that at first he was for no pinky stagger, and now he is for aggressive pinky stagger.

[–] MickiusMousius 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah, yes, I did suspect this was muscle memory at work.

The stagger is very similar to that of a Sofle though, and, inline with goals it should hopefully be usable by other newcomers.

[–] siegvar 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Also wanted to chime in that I appreciate a more conservative pinky drop, as a compromise between ergonomics and keeping it useable while gaming with minimal rebinding (keeping the vertical stagger between the a and s keys in the usual wasd navigation cluster within a reasonable threshold since it'd be used with the ring finger instead of the pinky in those context)

I feel this is also inline with the apparent (I'm making some loose assumptions here) goals of being a little more newcomer friendly, along with the fact that it has a bit more thumb keys than what many consider optimal for ergonomics and other details. It really feels like the intermediate step between the typical entry point split ergo boards like the Lily, Iris, or Sofle and the more optimal ergo boards.

Pushing those additional eronomic quality of life tweaks may improve the board, but it also brings the board much closer in target demographic to existing boards like Hillside or Cantor/Piantor for example, and arguably makes this board less uniquely appealing.

I hope I don't come off too strong with my opinions here; The design middle grounds picked in this board so far really resonates with me in a way few others have that I can't help but get excited. 😁

on a different note entirely: Good callout/reminder on the pitfalls of over-relying on that tool in a way that reinforces existing habit that may not always be optimal.

[–] MickiusMousius 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks. The loose assumptions are dead on.

Funnily enough after implementing the “math mode” I realised I’d made a gaming half board.

If you use szxc instead of wasd in math mode you have all your numbers still. The left side has a USB mode so you can avoid lag that come from BT (though that hasn’t been an issue for me). SZXC could easily be remapped to WASD on the firmware.

It got me to thinking whether I should tinker with a games mode…. But I don’t play enough PC games to have the right perspective for that. I suspect it’d be a very poor fit and more the kind of thing best left to people that like to make their own stuff to update the keymap who do a bit more of that than me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Beautiful board! I thought the thumbnail might be a render, that's crazy

[–] MickiusMousius 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thankyou.

I’ve started assembling V1 today. Which means I can finish the mechanical design this week. I’m looking forwards to having it, I think it’s going to look very nice.

[–] peanutman 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Looking forward to an update when it's done (hopefully with lots of pics :)!

[–] siegvar 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is lovely. I'm currently using a lilty58 while leaving the number row empty, and have been looking for a board to downsize to. I don't feel ready to go down to as low as 42 keys, so the corne is still a bit intimidating.

This? This looks like the Goldilocks medium I need at the moment. 😆

[–] MickiusMousius 1 points 1 year ago

Nice, I’m glad it resonates with you.

In a month or so I expect having a properly refined release.

[–] choas 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

no one has asked about the very detailed key caps … but you have a link in the github repository to fkcaps

[–] MickiusMousius 2 points 1 year ago

I expect once it’s at a “now it’s done” stage that might come up more.

Right now this is little more than a nice POC. I think the refined version will be quite a bit better…. And easier to make all going well.