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Spellslinger Mage v2.0 [feedback requested] (self.dndhomebrew)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by TakeoWolfe to c/dndhomebrew
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A spellslinger mage is an arcane caster who masters the basic magic of the cantrip. they forgo learning how to use a limited number of leveled spells in order to learn how to use their cantrips with greater power and efficiency. in other words it's a spellcaster that doesn't use spell slots.

thank you for reading. any feedback is welcome but I am looking specifically for feedback about the break dice resource and if it now appears / feels distinct from the fighter.

v1.2.5 (old)

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[–] Drystan_Furor 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sounds like a sorcerer using sorcery points. Even a Sorlock - using sorcery points to boost eldritch blast.

If you want unlimited spell casting but limit it to cantrips you’ll have to make a lot of utility. You would have to focus on cc, perhaps denial of area, or even small AoE.

The reason why cantrips are unlimited in use is because they are generally for role play or like fire bolt, a basic free attack.

I see you want dice breakdown, but as soon as you make cantrips deal dmg, a person will find the strongest cantrip and use that all the time.

Either look at warlock class Eldritch invocations - there is a reason they get little spell slots, it makes them have powers to cast at will like a cantrip, including fly and levitate and detect magic among others.

Cantrip ms could scale based on level, then look at eldritch blast as example.

This is my feedback on your Spellslinger idea. Might take a while to balance it.

[–] TakeoWolfe 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thank you for your feedback.

The first version of this class I made a mathematical breakdown for because it was at first just a proof of concept for a spellcaster without spell slots. I had based it directly off of the fighter and made sure it's damage output would not outpace the fighter, but of course between the levels 17 and 19 it did because cantrips scale at 5, 11, 17 whereas extra attacks for the fighter scale at 5, 11, 20.

While the damage was balanced against the fighter save for the problematic blade cantrips and an abuse of the wording for the classes damage boost using eldritch blast (the first version had every cantrip available to them) it outperformed the fighter by having more exploration and combat utility built into its primary attacks.

I replaced action surge with damage break, reducing the classes nova potential. I hope this will solve the issue with it outperforming the fighter. I also removed cantrips that can deal damage to multiple targets from it's list (save for acid splash) because a merit to the fighter is that with their consistent damage they can easily take down multiple lower CR creatures at once and that's something that shouldn't be intruded upon by the spellslinger.

I will argue that there is no best cantrip for combat because most have effects that would make them more or less effective in different situations. Chill touch for example deals d8 damage which is not the highest damage you can get with a cantrip it prevents the target from regaining hit points, shutting down any regeneration ability. Lightning lure can pull a target into an AoE. And ray of frost can slow a target from advancing, where many monsters don't have ranged options or have ranged options that are worse than their melee option.

I'll continue to work on it.

[–] Drystan_Furor 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Don’t forget that Eldritch Blast is charisma based, not wisdom, and like that there are several cantrips based on other things then Wisdom, this might be where the Spellslinger has balanced downsides, as Eldritch blast for example is strong when used by a warlock/ high charisma character. So you might deal less dmg while the higher levels provide multiple hits at reduced dmg.

You should probably look at features for lvl 6, 11, etc. To upgrade some cantrips.

Be warned that cantrips only severely reduces cc options because hold person/ sleep and others become unavailable. How to compensate that?

If spell slots is your thing to circumvent you might consider the optional rule of spell points.

https://youtube.com/shorts/oKItfcknwHk?si=cb_96J1m2d6kt-wb

[–] TakeoWolfe 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Apologies but you are mistaken. Cantrips are not based on a specific ability score by themselves. Cantrips are spells and in each classes spellcasting section it specifies what ability score is used to cast spells from that class. Example, firebolt can be learned by sorcerer (cha) and wizard (int) and they both use their respective ability scores to calculate the spell attack modifier for firebolt.

As far as what you are saying with eldritch blast, you are probably forgetting that eldritch blast is powerful for the warlock because of agonizing blast. Furthermore, the new version of the spellslinger uses intelligence instead of wisdom and has a much reduced spell list.

Indeed at 1st level, 5th, 11th, and 20th, you should find that the spellslinger does have an ability to increase the damage of a cantrip. So their bonus damage will look like this (spell mod * x) + (2 * x) at level 1 x = 1 and x increases by 1 at levels; 5, 11, 20. At level 20 their spell mod should probably be +5 so the bonus damage would equal 28.

The reduction of crowd control options is not a concern, if you look at this caster in the manner you would a martial. Indeed that is what I intended for this class that it plays like a martial character and what crowd control options does a rogue have? Or a barbarian?

It is not just spell slots that I avoided in this class it is also spell levels. That is the intention.

[–] Drystan_Furor 2 points 1 year ago

No apology needed, I learned things from you. Thank you for actually bringing it back to me. I’ll use this to improve my knowledge. Thank you