for some
this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
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Fedigrow
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The problem is, you only would see the content that was removed. It is also extremely one sided. The modlog isn't what it was, and now they have removed legitimacy from it by removing the names of the mods and admins who did the enforcement, even though it was already relatively easy and straightforward to create a moderation alt. So you don't get the visibility of any moderator abuse either. There's also the fact that moderators and admins do lie.
A community dedicated to calling out power tripping mods exists because it affects everybody and there is no moderator of moderator decisions, save for admins who, if not part of the problem also have other problems to deal with. There is no power tripping user because users basically have no power. The counter to yepowertrippingbastards for users already exists, it's called being a moderator, and they get to "post" about it in a modlog where their and only their word gets posted, where they are allowed to do it anonymously under the cover of seeming but not actual unanimity, and where users don't get a chance to tell their side of the story. Mods also have their own internal groups to address concerns of problem users.
Having a public community about it both makes those moderators who participate seem even more insecure and would also be a source of drama as they try to create a new version of the modlog in community form while finding out communities are not homogeneous.
Should we consider having a similar community for toxic users?
I think that it's a bad idea because that community would become a pitchfork emporium. Users posting there would be a textbook example of users that we shouldn't want in the Fediverse: whiny, entitled, assumptive, passive aggressive. It's how the cookie crumbles with this sort of meta-community.
To avoid that, you'd need to restrict the scope and make it objective, like !yepowertrippinbastards does - that comm is only about mods/admins acting as such and abusing their power.
A community dedicated to getting mad at people will quickly become just as toxic, if not more so.
1.) NOWHERE is worse than reddit mods. They can diaf.
B.) I love the modlog. Half the time I have to go "what the hell did I say to get deleted?!" and dredging it up to see what I said and the reason, which is usually "rule 5" or the like. I also like seeing deleted posts responding to mine that got deleted before I read them. Half the time they didn't say anything particularly bad towards me, just used a bad word or went off topic.
LASTLY.) Any changes that keep mods and admins out of dictatorial power is perfect. I got banned on Reddit for "being racist" because I called out criminals and some other jackasses were saying "black people" as the word "criminal" even though the crimes were in a predominantly white area so it was a bad assumption from the start. I have a black GF and my post history has ZERO racist comments or remarks. I asked the mod and they said it was because I was a racist like everyone else getting banned and blocked me and reported me for harassing them. I appealed it to the reddit admins, they did nothing and said the mod was in the right and i started getting banned in other subs for nonsense, only to find out from others they all share a couple mods...of note, this is how it went down, this isn't me editing the story in my favor, it was exactly that absurd and blatant...don't let Lemmy become THAT bullshit.
Lemmy is worse than reddit though. Especially if you don't block .ml.
Though they have predictably gotten quieter now that the election is over.
They do as the CCP demands.
Which is worse depends a lot on how much you weight each of their flaws. Personally I think that Lemmy still behaves better than Reddit, even considering that Lemmy behaviour is getting worse over time.
So, focusing solely on aspects where Lemmy is worse than Reddit, IMO:
- witch hunting
- intrusive soapboxing
- bossing others around with uncalled advice
intrusive soapboxing
Wut dis
TL;DR: to repetitively talk about certain really common topics outside their place, specially political ones, so all popular threads end being about the same subjects.
NTL;R: Soapboxing is when someone keeps voicing their opinion on something, to gather support. It's fine on itself, or it would if lemmings didn't do it all the bloody time, even outside the place for that discussion. It becomes intrusive.
So for example. There are 99 threads talking about Musk/USA/Trump stuff, and 1 to share cat pictures. Then someone mentions that the orange cat has the same colour as Trump's hair. Vooooooosh! Now the thread is infested with "Trump is evil! Trump is nazi! I HAET TRUMP!". They are intrusively soapboxing their hate against Trump. And now we got 100 threads about Musk/USA/Trump stuff and zero to share cat pictures.
When this happens you'll sometimes see people reacting. "Can we post cat pics here? Could you please keep politics out of this thread? Pleeeease?" style. Then you're bound to get some braindead trash vomiting "ackshyually everything is politics". That is technically correct but utterly idiotic in that context, and effectively conveys "I'm entitled to ruin your thread with this repetitive subject, suck it up".
This happens fairly often in Reddit. But since Lemmy has a more political userbase (not a bad thing per se), here it's all the time. And it usually takes mod intervention to not happen.
Do we really need to do public shaming?
You're not the first one to point it out, maybe I should remove this post.
To answer your question, as I said in another comment, I wanted to use this example for when people ask “how does a public modlog make Lemmy better than Reddit”, which is a question that comes up quite once in a while: https://feddit.org/post/4920887/3235141
We also public shame mods all the time on [email protected], no sure why potential trolls could not be called out too.
the power tripping bastards community often goes off the rails and becomes a hate fest, many many many times, people just go there to relitigate and rage, and the brigading gets out of hand.
A few times we identify a real mod issue, but the current format is chaotic
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It'd need a heavy mod hand methinks, otherwise people'll just be forming gangs on a mf after they get butthurt inna argument. I don't have first-hand experience but i have been around the Internet a long time, figger there's probably a reason most places don't allow doxxing and it's not cuz "it's wrong" and more cuz it's "exhausting" to clean
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I think yall are way to extreme and maybe need to take a break from the internet every so often. It's not healthy to be This indepth hardcore wanting to almost kinda dox ppl bc you didn't, ahem... appreciate their tone. Pretty pretentious. But anyway
We have an annoying lemmy users community where you can basically call users out, but the main rule is to mark out their username, instance name, all instances showing and community name. But to expose who they are also?
Number one you'd be making enemies and Secondly, you'd be making lemmy even more hostile then it already is. Which disincentivizes activity and engagement.
HC has an ask an admin community, annoying lemmy users community, and mod and admin complaints community. Which i think apply here, but highly doubtful anyone will use for the purposes stated in the post.
In short,
I think just taking a lemmy break, and breaking away from the internet drama is the best way to go here. The more you get involved, you might be fuckin with the wrong person and that'll blow up in your face.
I take breaks from lemmy all the time. I feel it's almost necessary in order to continue to use the platform, bc of how toxic, hostile, and extremist the online community is. I don't have time nor desire to drag my mental health into the mud fighting, arguing, and playing gotcha games on the internet.
I value my time and health more then that
That's a great example of a toxic redditor coming to the fediverse hoping people would tolerate his behaviour, but surprise surprise:
we don't
...and gets banned lol.
They didn't even get banned (except from SJW, but that's only one instance), I think they just deleted their account
No
I don't think we need that kinda community anymore, pretty sure we already have similar community
I agree that some Lemmy users are annoying and as bad as Reddit. But, man, if you behave like that, you're no better lol, in fact worse.
I agree with @[email protected], I started using recently PieFed and even contributed to the code, and PieFed seems to have a good feature specific to this case, like reputation points (though I have a feeling this could also be abused?)
Maybe instead of spending times creating community like that, how about we contribute on making high-quality content on the threadiverse?
That's what I attempt to do on [email protected] anyway
This I disagree with, b/c BOTH activities are necessary to help the Fediverse thrive. As Blaze pointed out, there are many niche communities starting to form here, already a year and a half past the Rexodus, and yet even ONE (or two) toxic interactions is more likely to send someone away from here than the presence of one (or two) additional communities is likely to entice them to remain.
You are not wrong in that we DO need additional content and communities like that - so kudos on that one!:-) - but we ALSO need to decrease the toxicity level significantly, if we want to entice the less thick-skinned mainstream normal people (who don't use Arch Linux btw) to join us here.
You don't have to ask, you can just create this community, as long as it abides by the instance's community guidelines, and see how it goes. But you will also have to live with the drama it creates, and that may far outlast the community well after it closes. I can already tell you, the moment this community begins getting tracking is the moment you will also see those problem users creating their own versions of it to dispel your claims with their own point of view. This will polarize instances even more by those that allow these types of communities and those that don't.
If it's worth doing it may be worth some effort? But I suppose you are saying that the cost to effort ratio is too high? That does seem a good point: what is all that effort really gaining for anyone? If the goal is to educate people how to make use of the modlog, perhaps using accounts that have already deleted themselves so as to not call out anyone still active here, there are already communities for such generic Fediverse content.
I 100% agree with you that making the tone here a little more positive would be a huge benefit. But unfortunately, I think the proposed community would be likely to do the opposite. The reality seems to be that toxicity and social media go together to some extent, at least as they exist today. The only proven solution I’ve seen is heavy-handed moderation which is labor intensive and can have other downsides.
But I like the brainstorming nonetheless. Keep the ideas flowing.
It definitely could go either way.
The toxicity needs to be discussed in order to deal, but what is the real benefit of doing that at the per-user level? To make a cross-instance blacklist? The affected users would just create an alt, plus what is "toxic" to some ("I want women to not be treated as people" is the epitome of grace and class to others - someFUCKINGhow?!).
A complicating factor is that currently, moderator reports aren't even federated across instances, and that won't be added until at least 0.20 as Nutomic put onto the Lemmy Roadmap. Not that it should either hinder or accelerate the need for such a community, just that it seems tangentially related?
I keep coming back to the idea of porn: should it not exist (no, I mean yes, I mean it should not be entirely banned, studies show that banning it at least correlates if not actually contributes to causing actual irl physical violence), or can it simply be labeled properly? The problem being that while the Fediverse does an excellent job of labeling NSFW content (and PieFed even adds a new category, on top of NSFW, for "gore"), it fails miserably at labeling most other things - e.g. you cannot criticize Russia, China, or North Korea on the infamous "community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers", which how would the latter have in any way implied the former, in its wording?
Making porn be "opt-in" makes it safe to visit the Fediverse even at work, without fear of being part of the company's "cost savings plan" (at least due to such a reason as this, assuming they even need a reason at all). Failing to label toxic users as toxic allows them to mix in amongst all the other users, with no distinction offered except to allow or deny, at which point the moderation requires effort to perform that task. Unless we try other ways?
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This idea sounds conceptually similar to something like kiwifarms, which seems like a red flag imo
Bro looked in the mirror and got such a hard whiplash he astral-projected into a parallel universe where he's a paragon of virtue
LMFAO
Because your obnoxious obliviousness makes light on the idea of piracy. Like you expect it to hold your hand in every step of the way. Plus, I am overwhelmingly tired of people like you with that kind of attitude. You’re the kind of pirate that downloads and barely learns. The ones always asking if they need a VPN for the thousandth time when we’ve told you for the thousandth time and more, that you do. So, no, I do not have to treat you with kindness. Enjoy the block. Keep raining those petty downvotes of yours for all I care.
If someone is asking me about same Piracy Question. I am gonna tell them 1000 times. Because I was also noob at some point.
Maybe [email protected] is a good place to post this.
Could be, but I also thinking about a specific community to call out bad faith users or trolls. Kind of [email protected] but for users
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Na, what will it do apart from bringing trolls and other asshats more attention? Attention is what they want.
Fedigrow:
To discuss how to grow and manage communities / magazines on Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed and Sublinks
How is this post relevant to this community? You posted it here because you're a moderator so you know it won't be removed?
Dunking on someone who was (rightfully) banned isn't the kind of post that fosters good community interactions. The moderation system works, that's great. Can we not give more oxygen to the troll's commentary?
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I'm kind of upset that this 'toxic' person came from the same instance as I'm using. Most people I encounter on the local pages aren't bad folks.
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