this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2024
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I've been looking around for a scripting language that:

  • has a cli interpreter
  • is a "general purpose" language (yes, awk is touring complete but no way I'm using that except for manipulating text)
  • allows to write in a functional style (ie. it has functions like map, fold, etc and allows to pass functions around as arguments)
  • has a small disk footprint
  • has decent documentation (doesn't need to be great: I can figure out most things, but I don't want to have to look at the interpter source code to do so)
  • has a simple/straightforward setup (ideally, it should be a single executable that I can just copy to a remote system, use to run a script and then delete)

Do you know of something that would fit the bill?


Here's a use case (the one I run into today, but this is a recurring thing for me).

For my homelab I need (well, want) to generate a luhn mod n check digit (it's for my provisioning scripts to generate synchting device ids from their certificates).

I couldn't find ready-made utilities for this and I might actually need might a variation of the "official" algorithm (IIUC syncthing had a bug in their initial implementation and decided to run with it).

I don't have python (or even bash) available in all my systems, and so my goto language for script is usually sh (yes, posix sh), which in all honestly is quite frustrating for manipulating data.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

Why not give (Common)LISP a try?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

posix sh + awk for manipulating data?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

You should probably check out Guile.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

Perl would be my candidate for more advanced text handling than what sh can do.

Never used Lua but I think it's fun.

If nothing else works, just learn C/Rust. There's plenty of that on Linux systems, I think you'll be able to manage. Yes, it doesn't meet a lot of your requirements.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

@gomp I like TypeScript.

I used Python for 15 years or so until they changed from v2 to v3. At that point I realised I couldn't understand my old code because it lacked types, so I got discouraged with that. So rather than learn v3 I stopped using it.

Perl is a disaster. sh is good for shell scripts but let's not stretch it.

TypeScript can use all the JS libraries and runs on node which is supported by all sorts of platforms. Yes there are a few holes in the type safety, so don't do that.

The internet is full of "how to do X in JS". You can read them and add the types you need.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

As for languages intended to be run as a script first and foremost, consider powershell. It's object oriented (and not, like other script languages, just serialising/deserialising everything to JSON under the hood). The syntax takes some time getting used to, but it's cross-platform, quite powerful, and has very good editor support.

Something I haven't seen here yet, but may be worth considering: several programming languages support invoking the compiler to run a source file rather than compile it into a binary.

Go may be worth trying as a Python replacement. It's strictly a programming language, but the language has been written to make it fast to compile. For simple scripts, there's not much difference between the startup time for Python and a compiler invocation of Go.

If you want a more functional programming, Kotlinscript may be to your liking (though that comes with a rather large JVM+compiler dependency that's not very portable). Kotlinscript is basically Kotlin (the programming language) executed like a script by putting the Kotlin compiler in the hashbang.

Similarly, Java can these days also be executed like a script if you invoke it as java some-script.java. Using Java like this doesn't allow for importing dependencies, though, which you may want if you ever need to process JSON.

These compilers aren't single binaries, but they are available as normal OS packages on most modern distros.

If you want to optimisme for "I want to copy a statically linked file to an alpine container", maybe look into fish or zsh.

For some types of data manipulation, PHP may be a good fit. It's not just for web development, although many of its more optimised features are designed for that. Useful features include clear iterations over maps/dictionaries, quite strong static types it you bother to put them in the script, and lots of examples of how to accomplish something online.

Typescript can also be invoked directly these days, and it's even better than PHP (and arguably most programming languages) when it comes to types. I find the time it takes for the JS VM to initialise frustrating, but maybe more modern interpreters such as deno do better in this regard.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

Kotlin script is fantastic! I wish it would become more popular. Dependency support, cached complier output, etc. I really like it for non-trivial scripting since you didn't need a venv for dependencies.

OP is being ridiculous about space requirements. 60MB is a rounding error these days.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

Bro seriously just slap pyenv + pyenv-virtualenv on your systems and you’re good to go. They’re absolutely trivial to install. Iirc the latter is not a thing in windows, but if you’re stuck on windows for some reason and doing any serious scripting, you should be using WSL anyways.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

It is possible to wrap something like python into a single file, which is extracted (using standard shell tools) into a tmpdir at runtime.

You might also consider languages that can compile to static binaries - something like nim (python like syntax), although you could also make use of nimscript. Imagine nimscript as your own extensible interpreter.

Similarly, golang has some extensible scripting languages like https://github.com/traefik/yaegi - go has the advantage of easy cross compiling if you need to support different machine architectures.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

You could use Ansible for automation just keep in mind it needs python.

[–] Presi300 1 points 2 weeks ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

perl might be on all your systems. It’s kind-of a legacy, but still actively developed. It’s not a great language: it looks like bash scripting on steroids. But if you just need to write some small scripts with a language more powerful than awk or bash, it does the job. If perl isn’t on all of your systems already, then I would choose a better scripting language.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

TBH I don't even use awk that much, even that is plenty powerful for my needs. Perl absolutely blows my mind with how needlessly complex I can make stuff with it

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

Everyone always dunkin' on Perl, but I can't even tell you how often it's been the best tool for the job. Like, at least 3

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

Looking through the packages available for OpenWRT I would suggest Tcl, Lua, Erlang or Scheme (the latter is available through the Chicken interpreter). Try them out, see what you like.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Not sure how big node footprint is but would fit the bill. Would only recommend if you wanna go into web dev career in the future tho 🙃

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