Were they soldiers of Hamas or civilians who happened to be directly related to the leader?
this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2024
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Contrary to Linkerbaan's claims, this is mentioned in the article.
From the article:
Israel said they were Hamas operatives
Separate bit from the article:
The Israeli military said Mohammed and Hazem were Hamas military operatives and that Amir was a cell commander. It said they had conducted militant activity in the central Gaza Strip, without elaborating.
What this article fails to contain is any sort of rebuttal - the closest it comes is this, which isn't a rebuttal or denial:
Haniyeh accused Israel of acting in “the spirit of revenge and murder.”
I can't find any sources claiming the three were civilians. So to reiterate: Israel killed 7 people, claiming 3 were military targets and 4 were civilian collateral damage. Hamas (or rather, the Hamas leader who was the dead people's patriarch) claimed the killings were an act of revenge. Both can be true, and I can't find any sources rebutting either claim.
Small update,
IDF seems to be claiming that the children (not grandchildren, the ones aged 10, 8 and 4) would have been Hamas military operatives. That would make sense, given their father.
In my opinion, that would make these collateral deaths, not "butchering".
If your society is content with murdering children based on your belief of what they will grow up to be, it's not a society I'd be comfortable being part of, associating with, or existing alongside.
May you be judged accordingly.
Perhaps you misread me or the article. The sons were not underage. I mean... they had children of their own. Did IDF know the underaged grandchildren were travelling with them? I have no idea.
Idf says: the would be operatives. Therefore they are not. Either idf claims to predict the future or they killed innocent people either way.
Based on what we know about Israel's Lavender system, they don't care if the grankids were there, they already factored in the risk and deemed it acceptable.
The IDF claims that the children would have been Hamas operatives, on account of who their parents were. It's not hard to extend that reasoning to the grandchildren. After all, their parents were likely to be Hamas operatives as well.
No judge, no jury, just an executioner, based solely upon the IDFs word that they're likely to become future terrorists. One might apply that same logic to the whole of Palestine.
No, I think I read you perfectly.
The phrase "collateral death" is inhumane and depraved on its own. No American would accept "collateral deaths" of their own service members' families with a shrug.
Murdering people vs doing something causes people to die are very different things.
They are as different as 1st degree murder and 3rd degree murder.
Yep. Very different. End result is of course the same, but so is the end result of a fatal aneurysm.
What the fuck is your actual point here? That the 3rd degree killing of children is somehow acceptable? Would it be acceptable for example for Hamas to collaterally kill the families of IDF soldiers?
EDIT: Iran is supposedly soon going to be retaliating against Israel for the bombing of its consulate. Let's say the target high ranking Israeli military officers (like Israel has been targeting theirs). How many Israeli kids is it acceptable for you to be collaterally killed in such an attack?
My position is no, none, collateral murder of kids is fucking wrong no matter who does it. What the fuck is your position?
My position is no, none, collateral murder of kids is fucking wrong no matter who does it. What the fuck is your position?
Obviously. What is the point of stating this banality, this easiest positions of them all?
Check out the OP buddy. If it were a banality we wouldn't have this very discussion. But it apparently isn't, so here we are.
Just calling it "collateral" doesn't excuse or justify murder.
No, but it does make it not-murder.
Sophistry.
Wow that would "make sense" huh. Do you have any evidence for that "sense" or can someone blow up your entire family if your father does something bad?
I mean if my father was the head of a rebel resistance movement, I think it would increase the odds of me being part of the same movement.
Okay very cool so you endorse wiping out entire families because of one person?
Where is the evidence these people were Hamas
Of course I have no evidence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you also have no evidence that they were not?
I believe you also have no evidence that they were not?
I do have evidence they were not. I will debunk all the "presented evidence" in this comment:
Oh wait there is no evidence. That's right.
Okay very cool so you endorse wiping out entire families because of one person?
Do I?
We know that our species has the ability to deteriorate circumstances so badly that violence ensues. In many cases, there's no obvious objective single perpetrator -- things just deteriorate slowly to a place where nothing sane can be done to fix it. Israel vs Palestine is an obvious example of this happening.
Realizing this fact doesn't mean that one supports it or any of the steps that were taken to end up in that situation. I may have the opinion that I would rather see Israel win this thing, but it's not like I think that that would be an absolutely great thing. Just a less shitty thing than any other realistic option that I can see.
I understand that this means that I indirectly support deaths of people who deserve to die, but also of people who don't deserve to die. But now that we're here, there's no path in which that doesn't happen.
I may have the opinion that I would rather see Israel win this thing,
Rooting for the Nazis is not a great look. Not sure how any person still supports israel.
Unsure, not mentioned in the article. They don't seem to be "registered Hamas members" though israel claims them as such. But we already know that israel is using an AI system that rates Palestinians on Hamas likelihood by things like the Whatsapp groups they are in, who their family is and where they live etc.
It seems to be a political assassination on a holiday rather than an attack on soldiers though. Acccording to France24:
An Israeli military statement said its forces killed "three Hamas operatives" who were "on their way to carry out terrorist activities" in central Gaza, identifying them as Amir, Mohammed and Hazem Haniyeh.
They were killed in a car along with their grandchildren including a daughter which is unlikely company to bring along for an attack on the IDF.
Must be terrorist activities like picking up aid or going to school.
IDF logic: if they're related to Hamas, then they must be Hamas. If they get food or go to school, they are feeding Hamas and training Hamas, which is terrorism.