this post was submitted on 05 Apr 2024

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Fact Check: No, A New Study Does Not Show "Being Trans Is Just A Phase" (www.erininthemorning.com)

submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/skeptic

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

This journal, under the leadership of Kenneth Zucker, a noted anti-trans figure known for his involvement in reparative/conversion therapy

Oy, this guy again. Of course it is.

For another look at this guy's past "work", here's a video from JammyDodger https://youtu.be/39QZYk9XDYk

[+] damnedfurry -7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The study ultimately reveals that approximately 12% of 11-year-old children, with some variance between those assigned male at birth and those assigned female at birth, indicate a desire to be the opposite sex either "sometimes" or "often," with the vast majority selecting "sometimes." By adulthood, this percentage decreases to 2-3%.

Wow, very debunked and fact checked, lol.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Since you seemed to miss what exactly was meant by the headline:

Unfortunately, the headline fails a fact check: the study was not about transgender individuals, but rather on people who sometimes express dissatisfaction with their sex for a variety of reasons entirely unrelated to being transgender.

To complete the paragraph you grabbed from:

In addition, 19% of the sample circle sometimes or often at some point in their lives. From these findings, the Daily Mail infers that "The majority of gender-confused children grow out of that feeling by the time they are fully grown adults," although the term "gender confused" is not used in the original study. The headline, which claims "Critics Say It Shows Being Trans Is Just a Phase," suggests that the study supports this notion.

[+] damnedfurry -11 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Unfortunately, the headline fails a fact check: the study was not about transgender individuals, but rather on people who sometimes express dissatisfaction with their sex for a variety of reasons entirely unrelated to being transgender.

Yeah, the author is making that up though, drawing conclusion based on their own biases. The question is not "do you feel dissatisfied with your sex". It's asking, directly, about the surveyed's desire to be the opposite sex. Which is literally what it means to be transgender.

The second quote is just semantic straw-grasping "the study didn't use the literal words 'gender confused'!"

Please. It is completely fair to describe "desire to be the opposite sex" as gender confusion, especially in years of childhood where one's sense of self is in active development.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Being transgender is a constant and persistent condition. Even for genderfluid people the "fluidity" needs to be repeatable. If a girl/woman suffering from cramps during her period thinks "I wish I was a boy/man so that I didn't need to suffer through this every month", she doesn't become trans because of it.

And "gender confusion" isn't a fair description. It's basically saying "they are wrong about what they're feeling". And you're not a telepath to know that

[+] damnedfurry -10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Being transgender is a constant and persistent condition.

Yes. The whole point is to show that only a small minority of children who exhibit the hallmark 'sign' of being transgender, actually are.

That 2-3% of adults still feeling those same desires consistently, are obviously transgender.

And "gender confusion" isn't a fair description. It's basically saying "they are wrong about what they're feeling".

No, you're imbuing meaning that isn't there, by conflating confusion with incorrectness. Being confused is not the same as being wrong. Confusion means uncertainty--not being sure of what's true about yourself is definitely not the same as being wrong (what are you even wrong about? If you're currently "confused", then you have not reached a conclusion yet, and you have to do that before you can be correct or incorrect).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

A "hallmark sign" of having gender dysphoria is persistent identification with or insistence on being the opposite sex for at least a period of six months. And "not everyone who is questioning their gender ends up being trans" is not a statement anyone would argue with.

And no, confusion does imply being wrong. I rarely if ever saw it used as a short-hand for "not having an answer". It usually means either "fail to understand" (e.g. "I'm confused, is the birthday on the 5th or on the 15th?") or "made a mistake" (e.g. "Oh, sorry, I confused you for a friend of mine"). The term you're looking for is "questioning their gender" or "exploring their gender identity".

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The question is not "do you feel dissatisfied with your sex". It's asking, directly, about the surveyed's desire to be the opposite sex. Which is literally what it means to be transgender.

So gender dysphoria is not a thing then? You don't even have a base understanding of what you're talking about.

The second quote is just semantic straw-grasping "the study didn't use the literal words 'gender confused'!"

It's important because wanting to be the opposite sex "sometimes to often" is an entirely different beast from being gender confused.

Please. It is completely fair to describe "desire to be the opposite sex" as gender confusion, especially in years of childhood where one's sense of self is in active development.

Is it also fair to lump gender confusion with being transgender, and then make the conclusion that "being trans is just a phase"?

Notice how every step of your argument relies on saying that two distinct things are "fair to describe" as being the same. Eventually the results of a survey that asks "have you ever wanted to be the opposite sex" proves that transgenderism is a phase.

If a child said they wanted to be the opposite sex, and then as an adult said they did not, it doesn't mean they ever were transgender, or changed back from being transgender. It's an entirely different thing altogether.

[+] damnedfurry -8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

So gender dysphoria is not a thing then?

Gender dysphoria is part and parcel of a "desire to be the opposite sex". Seems pretty obvious that such a desire can't manifest without dysphoria about one's sex being present.

So...I have no idea why you would think I was claiming gender dysphoria isn't a thing. It obviously is.

It's important because wanting to be the opposite sex "sometimes to often" is an entirely different beast from being gender confused. Seems you don't even have a base understanding of what I'm talking about, lol.

You're doing the same semantic straw-grasping. Confusion is uncertainty. Until/unless that desire to be the opposite sex becomes either "always" or "never", that is, objectively, a state of confusion.

Is it also fair to lump gender confusion with being transgender, and then make the conclusion that "being trans is just a phase"?

Well, if there is anything to criticize the original article (the one this linked article is talking about, I mean) for, it's the fact that those children who have those feelings, and then no longer do in adulthood, should be considered never to have been trans in the first place.

It would have been more accurate for it to say instead "most children who experience the desire to be the opposite sex are not actually trans".

Do you disagree with this?

If a child said they wanted to be the opposite sex, and then as an adult said they did not, it doesn't mean they ever were transgender, or changed back from being transgender. It's an entirely different thing altogether.

It seems we are in fact in agreement on this, after all, as I basically wrote the exact same thing before I got to this part of your comment.