662
'Everyone in the World Needs to See This': Footage Shows IDF Drone Killing Gazans
(www.commondreams.org)
this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2024
662 points (92.2% liked)
World News
39935 readers
3131 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The video footage was from a month and a half ago, which means Al Jazeera should've been able to find out the identity of the men that were killed. They could definitely have gotten a comment from the IDF in that time frame.
Why didn't they do that? Then we'd have confirmation that they're civilian, or at the very least some explanation from the IDF. Whether someone is willing to believe what the IDF says is up to the viewer, but it should be included with the story. But they didn't do that, and considered it unfit to air on their English language channels where it would face more scrutiny. Their Arabic channels are very different than their English language sites, and more willing to air straight up propaganda. The internet is also willing to share propaganda with no effort to verify they were civilians just an emphatic "there's no way they can't be cilivilians!!!" Most news organizations understand that Hamas routinely caches weapons and wear civilian clothing when thy move to other locations, but this isn't given any consideration in this write-up.
Are they civilians? We simply can't know because of the shoddy journalism at work here. But the point just seems to be to maintain outrage, and a lot of people aren't looking for the normal information that should be there in a properly researched news story.
The burden of proof is on those doing the killing
Cool. A murder apologist. There's a reason the concept of war crimes exists, you ghoul.
Fuck me. Suggest that killing unarmed people is bad and you're a terrorist sympathiser? Buddy, you need to get a moral compass. You're on the wrong side of history and humanity
I don't know how things work where you're from, but where I'm from, the burden of proof is on those making accusations.
Lmao this isn't small claims court. Those people were straight up murderer from long distance with missiles that American tax dollars very likely paid for.
So when there's a murder case, the prosecution doesn't have to prove someone committed murder, it's the accused has to prove they're innocent?
Yeah, it doesn't when the accused admits it and says "but they were all Hamas". Since that moment the murder is proven, and "them all being Hamas" is what the accused is expected to find some court-worthy proof for.
Didn't see any such comment in the article. You're assuming an answer that wasn't given and wasn't even asked for. You're building a fantasy story to prove guilt in your mind.
Meanwhile in the real world, there was at least $200K worth of munitions used in that video. You have to be really naive to think the decision to use such munitions didn't go through the chain of command. So multiple people decided to use some very expensive munitions to kill some random civilians? Why? Because Israel is just that evil?
Stop inventing narratives in your mind and try to think more critically. The IDF isn't going to have a drone following some random civilians, and then use three expensive smart bombs to take them out for no good reason. There are a lot of civilians in the area, there's no need to use allocate that much hardware if the goal is to kill completely innocent civilians.
Your narrative depends on Israel not only being evil but also incredibly stupid in their use of resources. Given the lack of information given, lack of even basic levels of journalism, it's far more likely to be propaganda.
Ffs I have been reading your apologist bullshit on Lemmy for far too long. Touch grass.
Burden of proof is on those making claims. If you claim this is Israel killing Palestinians, you need to prove it's Israel. Otherwise it's some poor guys who lost their lives from an explosive. I didn't even see the bomb falling.
No, completely rational. This was probably Palestinian youths blowing themselves up to make Israel look bad. What was I thinking?
I agree with your points. I'm gonna reply to you but be talking to anyone reading too. Thanks for your comment and critique.
Flat out though, the IDF is killing civilians. This is known.
But based off the comments and videos, I don't think anything is known at all, but it seems unlikely these were civilians. Bizarrely, nearly everyone in this thread, and everyone who is going to downvote me, seems to want them to be civilians.
I would assume people would prefer them to be Hamas, who are terrorists and at the very least complicit in the massacre and kidnapping of Israeli civilians.
Outrage eliminates critical thinking and then anything that reinforces that outrage must be true.
I trust Al Jazeera, and I mourned their closure of Al Jazeera America as I was a supporter. But I could never trust anything they wrote about Israel and Gaza. It was barely veiled propaganda. This video is incindiary sensationalism because we are given zero context, but lots of guessing. By releasing this grizzly footage without context, that shows intent to exploit emotions and let us fill in the gaps. People really suck at this.
I'm really glad a bunch people, especially people like you, replied. It was fairly easy to separate the wheat from the chaff (that doesn't mean only people who confirmed my suspicions btw) They/you spoke in terms of fact, objectivity, not in guesses, assumptions, and emotion.
To anyone who reads this ramble: If any journalist, holy-person, video, podcast, head-of-state, or meme is demanding your outrage, do not trust them because that is what propaganda looks like. This is a foundational aspect of media literacy and resisting the influence of power.
Every military in pretty much every war kills civilians. There is a distinction made between collateral damage and a military that deliberately targets civilians.
On October 7 Hamas deliberately targeting and killed civilians. This is known.
What we've seen from "alternative media" is a deliberate attempt to create a false equivalency between what Hamas did (genocide) and what Israel id doing (war). The video we're commenting under now is one of many such reports.
Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence, But the non-stop barrage of disinformation that people are gleefully going along with eventually does lead to questions about the motivations behind this.
I mean Al Jazeera reports the casualties like a scorecard in a sport. The Hamas casualties are included in the same number of the total Palestinian casualty number. The Israeli casualty numbers are civilian casualties only. They don't include IDF casualties in their numbers as they do with Hamas casualties.
It's a war so there's no way to know the exact numbers especially when the war is ongoing. Hamas has admitted 6000 of their fighters have died, and as with all wars we can assume the real number is much higher. And that's 6000 fighting men they admitted to. There's no number given for the military support personnel (which are valid targets in a war) that the IDF killed.
And I've noted that as the numbers for casualties have flattened nobody reports it anymore. Does fit the genocide narrative I suppose. If it were a genocide then you'd expect civilian casualties to increase as the "brave Hamas fighters" that are "protecting the civilians" are eliminated. But instead the civilian casualties are decreasing. Numbers simply don't fit with the genocide narrative so they don't get reported.
I just look at what both sides are saying and the truth is somewhere in between. The actions of Israel makes sense to me. Terrorists when into villages and murdered everyone they could find. That's an act of war. Given the the casualties the inevitably come with a ground campaign, I wouldn't want to do that. Unless of course the terrorists took hostages and I had no other choice. And since that's what happened, here we are.
For the actions of Hamas they only explanation I have is that they're psychopaths. If your goal is to negotiate, you don't murder a thousand people. They wanted this war, and they took hostages to force Israel into a ground camping to maximize the Palestinian death toll to gain international sympathy.
What's disturbing to me is how easily people are going along with the plan that was made by these psychopaths. They created a war which would inevitably lead to deaths and had their cameras ready to broadcast the propaganda. And a lot of people swallowed and got into a competition to prove how dedicated to the cause they are. To the point where they are being overtly being antisemitic now. What's the goal? Keep Hamas alive so they can continue this cycle of violence forever.
Israel isn't going anywhere, and hatred of Israel is only going to cause the deaths of even more people. Everyone needs to calm down with the constant outrage and think about the best way to end the violence. Spreading lies to keep everyone outraged and hating isn't going to accomplish this.
It's not helping Palestine in any way. There territory is shrinking as the continue to choose violence. I'm under no illusions that Israel is the good guy, it's a country full of both good guys and bad guys like every other country. But when you choose violence the only thing that matters is which side has the stronger military. And that is clearly Israel. For the Palestinians the best course of action is to somehow let go of their hatred and negotiate for whatever they can get. What they can get at a negotiating table now is much less than what they would've gotten decades ago, but it's more that they'll get a few decades from now.
The dream of a Palestinian state is almost dead now and Biden is desperately trying to resuscitate it. Which is something that only people that get the news from reliable sources understand. The "alternative media" take is just that he's "Genocide Joe."
It's gotten crazy how far the non-stop outrage has caused people to stray from reality. Most of the efforts of activists have been at best ineffective because they're too disconnected from reality to have a message that makes sense to anyone that still lives in reality. At worst the activists are prolonging the war and are increasing the number of deaths in the conflict.
Ok now I've been rambling.
You said it. Though it's definitely understandable to be outraged by something that happened, you gotta stop and think about why someone is putting it in front of you. The mainstream media it's their job to report the news and they have an incentive to be considered trustworthy so they're going to make an effort to get the story right. Even then they get it wrong sometimes. Random person on the internet? They probably want to get clicks and don't care if what they're saying is a straight up lie. Or worse, they want you to be a part of a cause that serves their interests but don't actually care about you.