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People from a minority/dying culture, how do you feel about it? (lemmy.ml)

submitted 4 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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There are many cultures around the world that are suppressed by majoritarianism. They have to face challenges like forced assimilation, language discrimination and refusal to acknowledgement of their unique identity. In fact, many cultures have been identified by UNESCO, that will soon cease to exist - either that they're vulnerable, or completely extinct. How do you, as a minority, feel, knowing that your entire identity will cease to exist in a few decades? Do you have a sense of camaraderie towards other minorities from other parts of the world, say, the Ainu people, or the Brahui pastoralist?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (14 children)

It's not that it exists, as you say. It's that the French language is forced on to the rest of Canada. You can see my other comment in this thread.

I've thought of a good analogy. In Alberta there used to be so many Ukrainians they thought about making it a provincial language. So in this hypothetical let's say that AB was bigger and had the political sway that Quebec has. Suddenly Ukrainian is a national official language. If you want a federal job, you better learn Ukrainian. Want to enter politics? Better speak Ukrainian. We're going to open Ukrainian immersion schools across the country so lots of Canadians speak Ukrainian and so Ukrainian speakers from AB can get service when they travel across the country. I wonder if you'd be a proponent of that. And if you say that makes no sense, I'll say "It must be really hard being from the majority and constantly being reminded that a minority exists". So again, it's not that it exists. It's that it's forced on the rest of the country.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (13 children)

Lol, in what language are we having this conversation again? I personally don't give a shit about you speaking french. It's not us that "forces" french on you., we don't care about your lack of interest about us, we don't care much abour your culture either. French canadians are well aware that many of you guys would rather learn latin before a single word in french.

Now, for the jobs that requires you to be bilingual, well guess who needs to learn english to get them? Yet you don't see french canadians crying all the time "it's not fair, I don't want to learn english to work for the governement of my billingual country. " You wanna do politic only in english, be my guest , but dont complain that can't get votes in Quebec. Same would apply to a politician that only speaks french but that does'nt exist in Ottawa. Do you think english is no force on us lol? I speak 4 language, it's really not that hard to learn when you try. So yeah, cry me a river.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (12 children)

Dude, french language is being forced. You seem to want to wipe your hands clean of it, but it is being forced.

I see you didn't look at my other comment so:

This part mostly fits:

… Yes bilinguals *in French and English. I thought that was so obvious that I didn’t say it specifically. And that requires, wait for it, French. [*Actually no, not bilinguals. If you are bilingual in English and Mandarin, you don’t meet the French criteria. Repeat all languages. It’s French that they want and require above all others. But you’re trying to misframe the issue by saying not Francophones unilingual, and saying bilingual (with what I see as you defaulting to include French).]

This part really fits:

So you speak French and work in Quebec. Fine. Why do I need French in the prairies? Do you see how this goes? The demand for English is market demand because it’s the dominate language in Canada, the US, UK, and the international language of business and science. The vast majority of demand for French in Canada (outside of Quebec) is an artificial construct forced on the rest of the country. It’s completely artificial. There’s no natural demand or desire. But it’s forced on everyone and on to job requirements. You’re trying to confuse it with all these other things trying to make it sound like ‘both sides’.

And the new part:

Congrats on speaking 4 languages. But yes it is hard for many people, and more importantly it's completely unnecessary. It'd be like requiring high level math for fields completely unrelated to math. And I'd just say math is easy, knowing full well some/many/most can't do it for reasons. Then when you/someone says I can't do this math I'd say "cry me a river" because I can do it and benefit from it. (I notice you didn't comment on learning Ukrainian, likely because it's so ludicrous that you don't even entertain it. Well that's what learning French is to us.)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You learn French, they learn English, you meet in the middle. I think that's probably how that was meant to work. Sounds fair to me.

You seem to lack the ability to change perspective here: You learn a language and so do they. You just seem to be missing the fact that the other side is doing the exact same thing?

I never knew there was this much drama about the French language in Canada. Really interesting fact on its own.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Already covered

The demand for English is market demand because it’s the dominate language in Canada, the US, UK, and the international language of business and science. The vast majority of demand for French in Canada (outside of Quebec) is an artificial construct forced on the rest of the country. It’s completely artificial. There’s no natural demand or desire. But it’s forced on everyone and on to job requirements. You’re trying to confuse it with all these other things trying to make it sound like ‘both sides’.

I did entertain perspective. If I spoke Ukrainian (plus English), I would not demand the rest of the country learn it. It's actually the other way around, he can't entertain perspective. It's bizarre that you think otherwise.

And they don't need to learn English. This gets back to the main issue: they can do what they want in Quebec. But French language should not be forced on the rest of the country.

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