this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2023
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weirdway

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weird (adj.)

c. 1400,

• "having power to control fate", from wierd (n.), from Old English wyrd "fate, chance, fortune; destiny; the Fates," literally "that which comes,"

• from Proto-Germanic wurthiz (cognates: Old Saxon wurd, Old High German wurt "fate," Old Norse urðr "fate, one of the three Norns"),

• from PIE wert- "to turn, to wind," (cognates: German werden, Old English weorðan "to become"),

• from root wer- (3) "to turn, bend" (see versus).

• For sense development from "turning" to "becoming," compare phrase turn into "become."

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I've been thinking a lot about death lately. I thought about death in the context of convention, but that didn't seem too relevant to this subreddit. I also thought about death in the context of freedom, which seemed totally relevant. Here's my mostly unedited thoughts. I welcome other thoughts and criticisms of my ideas.

What is it that dies? The body dies. What is it for a body to die? It is a change in state, from motion to non-motion, from sentient utility to uselessness. The conditions that are necessary to keep the body alive and able to move are no longer fulfilled.

Death is something that happens to bodies. A mind is not a body. Minds cognize bodies. Minds experience bodies. A body dying is an experience and cognition that a mind can have.

People worry that their mind is tied to their body, and that when their body dies, their mind will also die. Specifically, this is rooted today in a belief in the brain being the origin of the mind.

This belief arises largely from the fact that, in the conventional world, affecting a brain is related to changes in that person's mind. So, for example, brain damage is associated with changes in mental state. Similarly, chemical drugs that are believed to interact with the brain are associated with changes in mental state.

There are two reasons why this does not mean that the brain is the origin of the mind.

First, the eye is related to changes in a person's mind. If one or both eyes experience any sort of change of state or damage, then there will be an associated change in that person's mental state. Their visual experience and beliefs will be different. Similarly for the ears, the skin, the tongue, the nose. None of these are the origin of a person's mind although altering them can affect a person's way of cognizing.

They are all sense organs. They are objects which are believed to affect cognition, and thus they do. The brain is the same. It is another organ which is believed to affect cognition, and thus it does.

Secondly, in a dream it is possible for there to be a relationship between a dream brain and dream cognition. A person can have dreams where certain dream drugs affect their perception, for example. Thus, the ability of drugs to affect one's state of mind in the dream is rooted in one's state of mind. So it can also be during waking.

So, when the brain is thoroughly damaged and the body dies, what happens?

Despite the demonstrations above, one response might be, 'when the body dies, the mind stops manifesting and experiencing altogether. The mind will stop existing.' However, upon further consideration, this idea is nonsensical. The mind doesn't start existing or stop existing. The mind is the infinite capacity of possible experiences and manifestations. Experiencing nothing is one possible state of mind. Even when the perspective of nothingness is what is experienced and made manifest, there is always the potential for experiencing another perspective (a perspective of something).

So, a person might then say that when the brain and body die, a person's mind forever experiences nothingness. Since the mind believes that a brain and body in a physical world are necessary for perception of things, the absence of a functioning brain and body would result in the manifestation of nothingness.

There is a problem with this way of thinking.

An individual dreams every night and the dreamer can know that in this particular dreamworld their dream cognition depends upon the survival of their dream brain and body. And the dreamer will either create a new dream or wake up if their dream brain or body are destroyed. Similarly, when living and waking we believe that our living cognition depends upon the survival of our living brain and body. Thus, we cannot conclude that simply believing, in the context of the living, waking world, that our brains and bodies are necessary for living, waking cognition means that this living, waking brain and body are necessary for non-living, non-waking cognition. After all, there's no way to discern the difference between a dreaming experience and a waking experience using evidence – the only difference is in what you believe about experience. Similarly between living experience and dead experience.

So, we have no reason to conclude that our minds will manifest nothingness after our bodies die. At this point, we are left wondering what we might experience when we die. It is unclear. This is where we can start looking at intent and commitments.

What a mind believes and experiences is intentional. A mind's reality is a mind's will manifesting. So, having a given set of interests is intentional. Having a certain sort of personality is intentional. Having a specific job and living in a specific country is intentional. Having a human body and living among humans according to their norms is intentional. Living on Earth in this universe is intentional. The laws of physics in the universe are intentional.

Most humans are laser-focused on their ordinary human lives with their ordinary human concerns. They believe their experience definitely takes the form of waking and dreaming cycles (with specifics varying from individual to individual), and don't think about the broader nature of these things at all and are instead concerned with controlling events taking place within these states of mind.

As such, they habitually think about controlling the details and never look at the bigger picture. They don't pay attention to and have forgotten about the bigger picture. It may even feel totally outside of their control (even though it isn't). These people are deeply committed to the general intentional structures that make up a world like this that allow them to interact with the specific details of this world they like. Because of this, most people's dreams reflect these intentions as well.

We might consider an individual who is so focused on being successful in their career that they never think about the optionality of their career. Their career is voluntary and intentional and they are always free to disengage. Their identity is so caught up in living a lifestyle to impress their peers, sucking up to the boss, learning the things necessary to succeed in their industry, that they basically never think outside of this commitment.

Let's imagine that this person then loses their job. This person is now confronted with their freedom more directly. Here they are, unemployed, free to find a new career or remain unemployed and learn to live a whole new lifestyle. Assuming that this person maintains the same motivations that got them and kept them in the old career, and assuming that this person never considered or prepared for unemployment or other careers, it is probable that being unemployed is terrifying and embarrassing. This person will want to get a new career as soon as possible to continue pursuing their visions of wealth and success.

Depending on this person's skill and know-how regarding finding a new place of employment, they may end up in a terrible line of work like fast food (if they don't know what they're doing and are really scared and their last career was just luck), something moderate like low-level office work (if they at least remember or can discover the basics of job-finding and be patient), or maybe with skill and some nepotism they will end up in the same industry with another good career.

If we imagine that the living world is intentional in the same way as a career, only more abstract, then we can draw certain parallels. The more attached and focused a person is to the specifics of the living, material world of convention (with little thought of its unreality and intentionality and consideration of options), the more we can expect that person to in some way desperately seek to re-enter a living, waking, material world of convention – that is, to re-manifest a life in a world.

When a person dies, their entire perception is ripped out of its ordinary and conventional material context. Suddenly, such a person finds themselves confronted with the world of the dead – not a place where ghosts reside necessarily, but a world where manifestation and experience are wholly free of ordinary constraints. This is very similar to an individual losing their job and becoming unemployed. Yes, you can live this way and don't need to return to your old lifestyle, but it is probable that the individual had a reason to live within the constraints of the old lifestyle – something they were seeking, and thus a motivation to return to the life of working or a motivation to return to the life of living, waking, material convention.

It would make sense to conclude that individuals who enter this state (death) thoughtlessly and accidentally after being wholly focused on the living, waking world will be so panicked and confused that they may not make the best decision or use the most skill in selecting/manifesting a new life. Similarly, individuals who are more aware and have prepared and practiced are more likely to be able to deal with the situation and make a skillful and controlled decision. This is not a discrete situation, but is rather a continuum.

I find it hard to say much more specifically about the intermediate state between lives, the state of being dead.

What do you think?

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[–] syncretik 1 points 1 year ago

I think this essay is brilliant and the second half of it strikes me particularly deeply with its metaphor of job loss as a small death.

Thing is, we don't even need to wait for the body to die in a conventional way to miss this opportunity of freedom. Of course when the conventional mental fabrication of a human body passes away, that's a huge opportunity for someone who's been active in contemplation, meditation and magickal practices. But such opportunities can show up, sometimes quasi-uninvited, even before the human body dies. And I'll give one example from my life.

Once I had a lucid dream when things became too real for my comfort. I was 100% aware that it was a dream and that there was a body in bed outside the context of the world I was then experiencing. As I was examining the dream world around me everything gained density. I could feel pain in my body when I pinched myself. The sun started to burn my skin. I could smell the scents of the rural environment wafting in the air. I had a very distinct sense, a certainty, that I could actually just permanently stay in that experience and live in it. This thought frightened the hell out of me.

I started thinking, but what about the body in bed? Will the people "out there" think that body had a heart attack or a stroke? And so on. I was so attached, to the point of instinctual desperation, to the world of this Earth here, that the idea that I willy nilly might stay in a dream and never return to the dreamworld of this Earth struck me as intolerable. I also felt fear that the memory of my other body lying in bed was fading, and if I completely forget that there is another body waiting for me "out there," I will just not know that I can return back to it, and will get stuck permanently in whatever world that dream painted for me. So I felt pressure to wake up and to do so soon, before I forget! So I instantly made myself wake up. And of course, I was back in bed in the context of this dreamworld here. I was safe!! Ahaha...

If I were better prepared, I might have taken that opportunity and had myself a dream that lasted 20 subjective years or more. I might have gone onto a wild magickal adventure. Who knows what might have happened. But all I could think of was that I didn't know anything about that dreamworld, and that I had to go back to this dreamworld here that I am accustomed to or else there'd be a body for my family to discover. And I can't have that, can I? Hmm... That's right. I'm doing it all for my family! Isn't that a nice excuse to cover up my cowardice? It's brilliant.

So my point here is that with magickal training there will be many invitations where one can seriously depart from convention for who knows how long and who knows on what conditions. But if one isn't ready, one is going to recoil in fear and instantly cleave to this familiar and safe dreamworld of Earth where Paris is the capital of France, and where UK is the country on the island across from France, and so on. You know, the old and familiar setup. Mother approved, doctor recommended setup.

This is why I deliberately toned down my magickal practices and focused very heavily on contemplation. I am preparing myself for that time where I will no longer be tied to any convention and when the invitation comes, I will take it, instead of chickening out.

Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2016-05-04 14:25:10 (d2s1skr)