this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2023
921 points (96.2% liked)
Lefty Memes
3759 readers
382 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, upvoting good contributions and downvoting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such, as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries. That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry. The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals. We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals. Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
7. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't know why I am so helpless to resist putting energy into things that make me so unhappy, but I am. I will mention an example to explain why I feel this is inconsistent, and then condemn the ideals behind the paradox.
By no means was India under a social contract with the colonialist British Raj. The British Raj was created using forceful means.
India did not gain swaraj by professing violence when the British intimidated them. Nor when they British rode over them on horses. They gained swaraj through non-violent resistance. The successful party tolerated outrageous abuse without violence. And won their social contract.
The Paradox of Tolerance suggests the only means of combating violent intolerance is through the same intolerance.
I cannot agree. This is no different from saying, "A violent dog may only be stopped by a violent dog." The people who follow such dogma devolve into organizations such as Hamas. Hamas is right to resist their intolerant neighbors. Certainly. Absolutely? Even through violence against civilians?
One sentiment in this thread cut close to this issue, which I will paraphrase. "Anyone who passively supports intolerance is also intolerant."
Such an ideal supports violence, as each side believes they are justified in causing ever higher counts of casualties, "To remove the intolerant."
Violence for violence. Hate for hate. There is no end to intolerance, ever. Not through tolerance, not through discourse, not through genocide of the intolerant.
The end of a violent dog is through careful restraint and gentle care, but there will always be violent dogs. Violence is a short term dirty bandage, followed by rot, followed by excision. Only care can help heal a wound.
The paradox is almost right. The end to tolerance is... intolerance.
Forgive me for intruding upon your morning, I wish you a pleasant day.
I'm glad you put the effort in, it's the only way humanity can improve upon itself.
I agree with what you've said and think this graphic agrees with you as well. I don't believe it implies that violence should be used against the intolerant but rather that action should be taken to remedy intolerance.
However I do see what you mean, as it's phrasing doesn't preclude violence either and could be further refined to highlight that point.