this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2023
57 points (90.1% liked)
World News
32285 readers
1034 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Ah, yes. Deescalate with Putin. Because he has shown himself to be such a reasonable man. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine stops existing. If Russia stops fighting, the war will be over.
The Donbas and Crimea don't want to be part of Ukraine. The war between Donbas and Ukraine has been going on for 9 years. If the people of Donbas stop fighting, they will stop existing.
I'm not going to die for my country or my government, why do you expect Ukrainians to die for this shit?
And because you wouldn't, clearly noone else would either, right?
Ukraine is conscripting people. They're preventing men from leaving the country. They are clearly sending people to the front who do not want to be there.
If someone sends me to die in this way I reserve my right to kill them in self defense.
Stop cheering this on.
If you want to flee conscription, I support that. But likewise, Ukraine has the right to defend its sovereignty. As of now, most of Ukraine's conscripts have been volunteers and, opposed to russian conscripts, they receive training in the very most cases.
And to hammer that point home, just like involuntarilly conscripted soldiers, the people in Bucha, the people in Kherson and the people in Mariupol did not choose to take part in this war. Whenever russia retreats, stories of torture, killings and abductions emerge. Leaving those people to suffer under russia is as inhumane as it gets. Not to mention, all the (war)crimes committed on russian occupied territory will never even have the cahnce of getting investigated if russia is allowed to hide them.
Re: Bucha
https://twitter.com/r_u_vid/status/1510731844236455940
https://t.me/rybar/30540
Russian troops left Bucha in March 30, after the talks between Russian and Ukraninan sides in Istambul, where Russian side announced the willingnes to diffuse the situation near Ukranian capital. In the four days since the Russian military left Bucha, there has not been a single sign of atrocities, not a single mention of them in the media. On March 31 Bucha Mayor Anatoly Fedoruk, shot a video about the Russian military leaving the city. He say nothing about the streets being strewn with corpses. Photographer Konstantin Liberov was in the city of Bucha (Kyiv region of Ukraine) on April 1 and 2. While shooting a video and talking about the city, he does not mention anything about the corpses of local residents. The man was there as a volunteer. In his story, the photographer never once mentioned the corpses in Bucha. He also did not see any bodies in his numerous videos. However, he toured the entire city.
On April 2, the National Police of Ukraine entered the city. There is a long video of them clearing the city on the Internet. There are only no bodies scattered around the city exept one Russian soldier killed.
However as soon as the Ukrainian army enters the city, the corpses suddenly appears.
On the same day (April 2), units of the Kiev Territorial Defense enter Bucha from another direction - for a clean up operation. Among them was a detachment of a Botsman — prominent Russian neo-Nazi Serghei Korotkih, who escaped Russian justice in Ukraine. Their video footage shows one of the fighters asking, "Those guys over there without the blue armbands, can we shoot at them?" "You bet!" - happily answers the other.
Re: Mariupol
azov militants using civilians gathered in house as collateral shields to deter a russian strike on them
the Russian military's strategy is to encircle ukrainian units, then allow a corridor for anyone who surrenders weapons/proves they aren't part of the ukrainian military, particularly azov, but the ukrainian military according to testimonies of some in Donbass and Mariupol are not allowing civilians, particularly Russian speakers from DPR and LPR, to use the russian corridors, finding them more useful as human shields. This would imply that, despite the invasion, Russian federation cares at least a little bit about optics, even if only for cynical reasons.
https://youtu.be/nhLB5Wp1lGs
https://www.reddit.com/link/t9ibhw/video/lyvj5ykj96m81/player
How do you think the Ukrainians are receiving better training than the Russians? Not that it matters, I'm going to change my mind about sending conscripts to the front, whether they receive 2 weeks or 6 months of training or whether the Russians are doing the same thing. I'm not cheering on Russia's war effort, you're cheering on Ukraine's.
You think it matters to most people who controls what territory? Do you really think a country that has soldiers (whole units!) proudly wearing SS and other Nazi shit are some paragons of virtue towards civilians? It clearly would be best for civilians if the fighting stops as soon as possible.
If you believe all this stuff about good vs evil I've got a bridge to sell you.
One side has some units wearing Nazi iconography. The other side has state sanctioned torture, killings and deportations (and also Nazi iconography). Your comparison is a textbook example of false equivalence.
If you dislike Ukraine conscripting people wait until you hear about how they're getting 'soldiers' in Russia.