this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023
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Socialism

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I have noticed a huge difference between Lemmygrad and Lemmy.ml in terms of what kinds of theory gets upvoted and downvoted. What is the general vibe on here towards actually existing socialism as well as the ideas towards reformism?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I've read On Authority. There's good reason for my identifying as a socialist rather than a ML. I don't necessarily have a fundamental disagreement with the use of authoritarianism, however the way in which it has ever been implemented has been abominable and the defense of that by most MLs I've interacted with leads me to detest them when they're aware of what they're doing or assume they're an idiot who's fallen to the USSR billboard propaganda aesthetic if they're not.

[–] gerardda 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

... let's get some historical conditions straight: USSR was a wartime communism born and deformed by Western invasion (from USA and allies, no less) and persisted under a state of seige, so it didn't have the luxury of a more democratic communism envisioned by Lenin. Even today, aligned with Trotskyist permanent revolution everywhere but their own govts, the same usual suspects are angling by invasion or insurgency to break up and loot Russia (along with China) who isn't caught off-guard this time. Existential then, existential now.

I would also love to know what you think of the standard bogies of Cuba and Venezuela, or heck, even ML Vietnam or Kerala.

[–] Eldritch 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

While the west was unquestionably antagonistic. Which you know is sort of a thing that can happen when you unilaterally overthrow a number of countries governments than forcibly annex them.

How in any way does Western antagonism justify those nations treatment of their own people? And how on earth can an anti-democratic uniparty ever be Democratic? Are you trying to convince anyone that there were no gulags etc? Or that it was ever good for dissenters? I mean we could ask all the people that were disappeared or assassinated. Not just in Russia. But in North Korea and China too. Do we need to mention tiananmen square or the Uyghurs? But they're dead and gone. Cuba I think is a much more nuanced and better example. But still heavily flawed and problematic. You cannot blame it all on Western antagonism. It isn't some panacea that alleviates you of all fault. Authoritarian communism is antithesis to Marx's own theory. And will never work in reality. Authoritarianism is always destined to fail. No matter how long it drags on.

[–] gerardda -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's not that the West "was" antagonistic but "is", while you elide the fact to throw in with Anglo-American CIA and Foreign Office talking points against staple targets of Western aggression: Russia, China, Cuba, and North Korea for good measure. As I said, vanguard of imperialism.

You have unironically exclaimed "how on earth can an anti-democratic uniparty ever be Democratic" (with a capital D, as in party, lol)? When you're serious about tackling your own govts with the fervour you cheerlead regime change in lesser countries, only then socialism in the collective West could be taken seriously. China and Venezuela have more active democracy and socialism than that.

[–] Eldritch 4 points 1 year ago

I'm a Libertarian Marxist. I have no love for the CIA and blame it for a lot of the "WORLDS" problems. The fact that this is what you resort to. Along with the whataboutism and inability to actually explain the bad things that happen in your authoritarian regimes. Really shows how indoctrinated you are.

I don't have a problem with communism. Just authoritarianism and capitalism. You are both bad. But all you can do is point fingers trying to portray the other as somehow worse. And still failing. I would love nothing more than to see society come together and nationalize basic industry and infrastructure to fulfill societies basic needs. To abolish private property and replace it with a doctrine of personal property. And generally neuter/abolish the ownership class. Without the perpetual slaughter and dungeons.

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