this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
839 points (96.5% liked)
Atheism
492 readers
2 users here now
- Be respectful to other members Treat others with kindness and courtesy, even if you disagree with their opinions.
- Stay on topic Keep your discussions relevant to the purpose of the forum. Avoid going off-topic or derailing conversations.
- No spamming Avoid posting irrelevant or unnecessary content, advertisements, or links to unrelated websites.
- Use proper language and tone Choose your words carefully when commenting or replying to others. Avoid using profanity or engaging in offensive language and personal attacks.
- Do not share personal information Protect your privacy by refraining from sharing personal details such as addresses, phone numbers, or email addresses on the forum.
- Report any issues If you come across any inappropriate behavior or content, report it to the forum moderators or administrators.
- Have fun and contribute positively Participate actively and add value to the discussions. Engage in meaningful and constructive conversations with fellow members.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't have exact answers for this, but if you look at it as if Adam was indicative of all of mankind (which he was), you can see it less like people are condemned when theyre born but more like all people are inherently broken/flawed/sinners. Original sin was just the first example of it. If there were people out in the world who were objectively flawless and sinless I'd take a totally different stance, but mankind being broken and evil is just pretty consistent with history and with the bible
Christianity doesn't exactly say it's a grievous error to be born and that you're condemned for it, it more says that you're inherently broken but you can still be redeemed
We can agree to disagree then. You didn't really explain anything either.
We're an inherently selfish species from a biological perspective, people aren't just fundamentally altruistic. If evolution shaped our morals to encourage us to be nice to each other to benefit the whole species, why is it still such a struggle for people to be selfless?
I find it very hard for you to convince me that as a species we are neutral when the very people we put into power and govern over us are narcissists and power hungry people who have little care about every individuals lives that they govern over and are obsessed with self gain.
On an individual level, being altruistic/good natured/selfless is something that has to be fostered and you have to be intentional about. Growing up, we're taught lessons, in school and in media, etc., on how to be good/how to treat others. We're taught to do good things and don't do bad things. Why? Because our nature is to do bad things
If you have to be intentional about being good and not being bad, then that means your default state is being bad. It's easy to be selfish and only do things that you want and only care about yourself, because that's our nature as a species.
I don't agree that we just "are" and that we just "exist", it just sounds like someone that doesn't want to face the truth that mankind is not a perfect species. Vague statements like "we can only be as evil as we are good" doesn't actually mean anything. You just stated a bunch of facts like "death gives life meaning" and "shadow defines light". Sure. I agree. So what? Nothing that you said really clarified why humans aren't inherently bad in your eyes. You just said a bunch of generic statements that not even Christians disagree with as if I'm supposed to understand why your position makes sense now
The contrast though is that you don't "earn" heaven either. Nothing makes a Christian and a non Christian so inherently different from each other that one fundamentally deserves heaven and the other hell. It's saved by faith, not by works