this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2023
-23 points (10.3% liked)

The Agora

1598 readers
2 users here now

In the spirit of the Ancient Greek Agora, we invite you to join our vibrant community - a contemporary meeting place for the exchange of ideas, inspired by the practices of old. Just as the Agora served as the heart of public life in Ancient Athens, our platform is designed to be the epicenter of meaningful discussion and thought-provoking dialogue.

Here, you are encouraged to speak your mind, share your insights, and engage in stimulating discussions. This is your opportunity to shape and influence our collective journey, just like the free citizens of Athens who gathered at the Agora to make significant decisions that impacted their society.

You're not alone in your quest for knowledge and understanding. In this community, you'll find support from like-minded individuals who, like you, are eager to explore new perspectives, challenge their preconceptions, and grow intellectually.

Remember, every voice matters and your contribution can make a difference. We believe that through open dialogue, mutual respect, and a shared commitment to discovery, we can foster a community that embodies the democratic spirit of the Agora in our modern world.

Community guidelines
New posts should begin with one of the following:

Only moderators may create a [Vote] post.

Voting History & Results

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I have seen many a democratic initiative ruined by trolls, bot accounts, duplicate accounts, and assholes. The best way to ensure that democracy doesn't spiral into Haiti is to allow only financial contributors of $5 or more to vote (once the boss man has his contributions system up and running). You want to help build this community? OK, then put your money where your mouth is. To be clear, it should still be one vote per person, whether you donate $5 or $500.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Fantastic idea, money being involved in democracy has always worked out to benefit the average person.

Fuck the poors, they should have no voice in our community. What, you can't afford the price of a cup-a-coffee? Begon.

First vote afterwards? This is now a paid instance. I don't even want to see those plebs.

True democracy. Only ~~land owners~~ paying members^tm^ can vote

aye

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Your vote will count as an approval even if you were clearly sarcastic.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'll pay you twelve dollars for the rights to your vote

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As it stands, you could just create another account for $0 rather than paying for their vote. In fact, you could create a whole lot of them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's a good point. There are other solutions though that are less destructive. We could have timed verification, "karma" limits, lock it behind an application, only select participants, or only community mods which would lower the amount of false voters. Non of these are perfect, but neither is the donation gate.

To echo myself in another comment:

There are countless ways to trick that system and the trolls will be more dedicated than the average user. If someone really wants it a hundred bucks isn’t that hard to get, or to “find”. Especially if crypto is an option. If it’s 5 bucks to vote permanently, then that’s 5 bucks per vote, permanently. A person with more money and more accounts will have outsized power in this community.

[this] selects a specific type of person too. As a dev, I understand how rare it is for a person to move into a paying role on a site.

This minority of the instances population on an already small group will be those who most want power, not the most invested. That’s what 5 dollars gets you. Power. This is a poor idea.

I understand your concern, but I disagree with the direction you'd take it. Only allowing paid users to vote creates a power inbalance and makes the more power hungry much more powerful, without really stopping them from making more accounts. Sure, it costs them more, but there will be much less competition to overcome.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I want to be clear that I wasn't necessarily arguing for some type of paid option. Just that what we have now also isn't democracy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Either would be a democracy, definitionally, though both are imperfect. I'd agree something needs to be done to fix the imperfections where possible

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I would like to add a second level of financial support to allow downvotes, say $10, an invisible downvote for $20, and a special Gold Star vote that you can buy individually which is also worth ten upvotes. Of course, if we implement Gold Stars I would like a FullOfShit award as well and a SilentButDeadly award which isn't shown but resets the counter to -1 any time the vote would otherwise go positive.

Let make kbin a place just like the real world - where money buys influence!

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Idk man, $5 once, for voting rights for as long as you participate?

I get your point, but it's a pretty quick filter for trolls. Few are tossing five bucks for the privilege of fucking shit up when they can do that other places for free.

I'm not casting my vote yet as there are other means of gauging someone as an actor deserving* of voting rights in an instance (account membership, length of membership, x period of not being a shithead/having mod actions performed, etc.) that haven't been fleshed out here, but if that is too difficult or fraught to be effective I will support a small fee for voting rights (while fighting tooth and nail against making this a pay-only instance afterwards).

*'Deserving' may raise some hackles, but keep in mind this isn't a country in a real sense. Instance migration is a trivial action. If you feel you're disenfranchised in some way by whatever vetting for voting rights we land on, pick another instance or spin your own.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'd disagree that this is a reasonable solution, or that this will stop trolls. There are countless ways to trick that system and the trolls will be more dedicated than the average user. If someone really wants it a hundred bucks isn't that hard to get, or to "find". Especially if crypto is an option. If it's 5 bucks to vote permanently, then that's 5 bucks per vote, permanently. A person with more money and more accounts will have outsized power in this community.

You are right, there are other ways to validate. Moderators checking up on the posting history of random voters at reasonable intervals is one I'd like to see, and volunteer to do. I'd see any other, email validation, request form, specific user validation, active time, etc. before I'd lock it behind a monetary incentive. That only locks out people who can't afford democracy, or justify the purchase. It selects a specific type of person too. As a dev, I understand how rare it is for a person to move into a paying role on a site.

This minority of the instances population on an already small group will be those who most want power, not the most invested. That's what 5 dollars gets you. Power. This is a poor idea.

Thank you for the respectful and meaningful responce. though I disagree I'm glad to have the conversation