this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
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Wheel of Time
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Discussion of the Wheel of Time Books and Show.
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I am really loving S2; every episode has been amazing.
Same here! I generally enjoyed season 1, though the last episodes were a bit of a letdown (due to Covid). Season 2 has been stellar and improved upon almost everything.
I've read the books, and to my own surprise, I'm okay with the changes they've made. I might get some criticism for this, but I think the show is doing some things better than the books. They've kept the spirit of the books alive, even with all the major changes they've introduced, IMO.
I agree. I'm actually really glad that the show is different, because now I get to experience this story that I love for the first time - a second time!
Yea I'm reading the books now and am still behind the show (though not by much now, finished book 1 a couple of days ago). And so far my experience comparing them with the show has been surprisingly favourable to the show's adaptation choices. From the negative responses I figured there'd be obvious mistakes all over the place. But so far I feel like they're doing a nice job, especially given the time constraints they're under.
::: spoiler spoilers for book 1 and early book 2
Small examples ... introducing Liandrin and the relationship between Moraine and the Amyrlin early makes a lot of sense.
A lot of the hate is squeaky-wheel . And yeah, some people were hoping for a page-by-page re-enactment in 500 seasons. The Wheel of Time is a notoriously flawed masterpiece. Yes, still a masterpiece (as a superfan, I'd say THE masterpiece), but with some specific really severe issues... some of which you've already seen (but maybe missed) and others that you have to look forward to.
For example, the Eye of the World climax is considered by most to be the worst scene in the series. It's not really a spoiler to say they introduce some characters/concepts that don't affect the plot and are never really mentioned again, and as a One Power Wonk, certain things happen that DIRECTLY break the rules of how the One Power works for the rest of the series. Rand should have died, burned out instantly, and there's really nothing that should have changed that fact.
And yet, the show replacement gets more hate than the original did. And despite COVID issues, it wasn't that terrible. One issue with Nynaeve looking dead when she wasn't supposed to look dead. Big deal, imo.
The show in season 2 not mentioning that at all seems to indicate they'd like to forget about it too. Step too far for sure IMO.
I'm guessing Green(/ent) man and their Tom Bombadil space are what you're talking about here?
As someone who hadn't read the book by that stage, but has since, I rather like the show ending. It introduces Ishamael to us, who's awesome, emphasises Rand's immaturity, and more so than the book ending, makes it clear that Morraine (and Rand) are likely in way over their heads and that the Dark one's plan is big and will take some time to unfold. The latter is there in the dream sequences in the book, but it also works well as an ending.
Yea ... as I read that I said to myself "oh, Rand goes super saiyan, ok!". I guess the idea at that point in the universe is that's what the purified saidin was for, so that someone could go nuts without burning out. I'm guessing by your comments that that isn't made more clear down the track. Personally I'm ok with the eye being the reason. But as a story point, it's pretty cheap. Even the way Rand manages to attack Ba'alzamon in a way that seems like he is dead or whatever. I'm hoping that comes back to be explained as to what exactly happened (I'm halfway through book 2), because if not, it really wasn't necessary for that encounter to go that far ... it feels very much like Jordan felt like the book had to have some sense of finality even though it was going to be overturned immediately.
Step too far? I think we have to remember that the "Nynaeve was resurrected" opinion among non-readers was not that common. Most of the people confused/complaining about that scene were readers. The rest of folks concluded Nynaeve was unconscious because an actual resurrection would have warranted comment by people. In THAT situation, not commenting on it in S2 was confirmation to non-readers that Nynaeve was merely unconscious.
Yeah. The impact of the Eye itself as well, hiding the Horn and a Dragon Banner.
100% agreed. We get a less cartoony version of Ishamael with all the best traits of his equivalent in the books.
Except that breaks the rules.
Minor Rules-Wonk Spoilers
Ok, two things no novice ever hears you before looking at this spoiler tag.First, burning out comes from channeling more than your body can handle, NOT more than your soul can handle. Related, the rules of Wheel of Time place no limit on how much power any trained channeler can draw. They just burn themselves to death instantly without being able to use it... Or ride the line and do one last blaze 10x or more stronger than they can safely handle. "Weep For Manetheren".
Pointing to the above, the important point is that an untrained/unseasoned Rand canonically could not channel as much power as Aginor can. Aginor is formally rated ++2 in the power, with Rand ++1, but the difference between "initial strength" and "potential strength" is at least 2 full tiers at those power levels... making baby Rand likely a full tier WEAKER than Aginor at the Eye... Whether it came from an untainted pool or from himself, it would have killed him as easily as if they overchanneled himself. And Aginor "burned himself to death instantly" drawing/doing less with the Power than Rand does. For the above reasons, he also has no real motivation to have drawn all that power. Canonically perhaps the most analytical/scientific-minded of the Forsaken killed in a mad power grab he didn't even need?
Second, there is an important difference between a Pool of Saidin and an angreal or sa'angreal. The latter generally do two things - they increase how much of the power you can draw without injuring yourself, and they provide what is referred to as "a buffer" that physically prevents you from overchanneling. So as unpleasant(and addictive) as can be, you are safe going balls-to-the-wall with twice your naked potential when you hold an angreal.
A pool of saidin having no enhancing or buffer effects, Rand channeling something he could easily do with an angreal should still kill him. And what he does at the Eye is pushing it compared to things he does with sa'angreal.
It does, fortunately. It's also one of the awkward points to a parallel read/watch. If you think really carefully at what you've seen/read, you'll already know some of the answer.
Yeah, good eye. I was young when I first read the Wheel of Time, but I didn't put 2+2 together until years later. It's dizzying to think about, but next year (I remember because it was the year Lord of Chaos hit the shelves, and I remember where I was when I first saw it) marks the 30th anniversary of my picking up Eye of the World and it becoming my #1 reading obsession ever since.
Maybe spoilery from ending of book 1 onward
If I were to take a quick stab at it, I'd guess it's how the broken seal that gets recovered from the eye of the world was actually broken? Rand thinks he is attacking Ba'alzamon's source of power (by cutting it) but it's actually the binds of the seals?
No need to correct me or anything if it's spoilery ... just thought I'd share what my initial guess was/is.
Pretty much spot on. I meant regarding Ba’alzamon’s fate directly, though. The show tells us straight out what the books allude to for a little while.
Honestly, the spoiler I'm referring to is so obvious you probably think I'm referring to something else, but what I'm referencing is not clearly mentioned in the books for a bit longer. And of Book 2 or early Book 3 I think. Moiraine has said it directly twice in the show, though. About Ba'alzamon's nature.
Yea ... not sure what you're referring to here ... but that's ok ... I'll keep reading! Thanks again!!
Fair enough :)
It's probably something so obvious to you that you didn't realize it was being kept secret in the books. Either way, have a great day and enjoy!