this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
21 points (88.9% liked)

Programming

14 readers
1 users here now

Welcome to the Lemmygrad programming community! This is a space where programmers of all levels can discuss programming, ask for help with problems, and share their personal programming projects with others.


Rules

  1. Respect all users, regardless of their level of knowledge in programming. We're here to learn and help each other improve.
  2. Keep posts relevant to programming and related topics.
  3. Respect people's personal preferences. If you disagree with someone's choice of programming language, method of formatting code, or anything else, don't attack the poster. Genuine criticism is fine, but personal attacks are not.
  4. In order to promote breaks from typing, all code snippets must be photos of code written on paper.
    Just kidding ;), please use proper markdown code blocks.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

My gut answer is "yes!!!" or "revolution" but I want to hear what y'all think. For those unware, some creative professions such as film writers get paid a small portion of all revenue generated by their work after it's been produced, which is called a "residual," and it's part of their current fight with hollywood not properly paying those residuals due to the streaming loophole.

Since most programs that are profitable are based on the work of long gone developers (basically capital that gets worked on by machine labour), I think this might be a great demand for an eventual software development union.

What do y'all think?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The business is the driver of what the software becomes.

More bureaucracy is bad.

xi pointing at the screen

If other people work at developing the software, however they do, they should also get residuals too under this scheme. Which is why I wrote "(and every other IP-producting labour)." And the metric for it is actually pretty simple: "How much money did the company make from the software that lists these developers in its credits," much like how it works for writers, actors and other film workers. Nobody will be charged more for it, specially since tech companies already make boatloads of money from digital (zombie) labour with their IP anyways.

And in my experience, software development is also one very overworked profession with lots of companies with ridiculously high employee turnover rates. You mentioning the US is particularly troublesome because many of their states have "right to work laws" meaning people can be laid off without any proper compensation, and their corporations also offshore a lot of their development work to lower income countries, which complicates their "median salary" statistics.

Thankfully, I don't live there, but the idea here is specifically to counteract the allure of gig economy outsourced freelancing with stable income from well done jobs. Now, all those questions of how things should be done once it's decided is for the union to decide, but we already have examples of similar issues having been worked out by the WGA. We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

P.S.: I don't know about the other 2, but I'm pretty sure Stallman's take is along the lines of "don't you ever work for a company that produces non-FOSS software!" so I don't know how you think he'd be particularly opposed to this one vs the current state of the industry.

[–] mindlessLump 2 points 1 year ago

You make some fair points. Especially wrt OSS.

As far as software development being overworked, I cannot relate. The company I work for has opened up a shop outside of the U.S. for software development. I interface with them daily. They are paid very well relative to their peers.

There are also other forms of compensation in the industry including stock grants and bonuses based on performance and success of products.

I and the people in my local industry are fairly compensated, so I would not be moved to unionize.

It seems like you are pro union, and the conditions where you live are different.

I’ve always lived in right to work states. I intentionally live below my means, and create my own security cushion. I don’t know anyone in my industry who isn’t paid enough to do the same.

Wether that should change is a question that seems beyond the scope of “should tech workers be paid residuals”.