this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
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Probably need to understand the policy a bit better. If you get in line for a car but there's a waiting list from the sudden demand, if you don't get it until after they remove the policy do you end up missing out? It's a bit of a gamble.
We have a leaf, I've been hoping to get an electric long-distance car as well but was hoping to wait a year or two until ranges get better.
My other question is: are they going to extend the RUC exemption for EVs? Because if they don't, that will make electric cars much less attractive from a financial angle.Currently the RUC exemption is only until March next year, but it gets extended basically every year for another year. National might not, though.
We just got our Leaf this week, now just waiting on the rebate to be processed. The plan is to replace our older hybrid with a longer range EV in the next five years, once more of them show up second hand.
You're right about the uncertainty, I wouldn't be putting my name down on a waitlisted EV right now if my purchase was depending on receiving the rebate. I do think some form of RUC is fair for EVs, but yeah making it less attractive to own a low emission vehicle combined with removing the rebate at the same time seems short sighted.
For sure EVs should (longer term) have to pay RUC, since they aren't paying for roads through petrol tax.
But it's another way we can make low emissions vehicles more attractive, and if we are gonna hit our emissions targets we are going to need to do that.
For us (and possibly many others), our decision at this point in time probably hinges a lot on the Rebate. Neither of us have bought a new car before, so it feels like quite an investment to make that (along with a few other factors) we could only really justify with the lower price.
Also, how are you liking your new Leaf? I did do a bit of looking into it recently as a potential option.
If you don't mind me asking, did you go for the Long Range package?, and why or why not?
Oops I wasn't too clear, but we got an imported second hand 2018 40kwh Leaf. We were tossing up between going for a new car (MG4) and going second hand. Decided it wasn't worth it even with full rebate right now for something we were planning to use just around town and for my partner to go to work. Our actual plan was to go second hand and get solar installed, which would have cost less than the new car. The roof maintenance issues threw a spanner into the works so we're not doing solar for now.
I've never bought a new car either and this is actually the most expensive car I've ever bought. Accounting for the rebate and selling the old ICE car, the Leaf cost us around $18.5k. When there are a more extended range second hand EV's for sale will be when we trade up the old hybrid.
We like the car a lot, but I will say if we only had one car the Leaf wouldn't be my first choice due to the lack of active battery cooling and battery degradation. As it stands the range on it for around town use will last us a long time even with degradation. It was advertised as 89% SOH and it still shows the full 12 bars. I'm just waiting on my ODBII dongle to arrive so I can check and monitor battery health.
Hmm, I think I might be in a similar spot to you. We don't really drive a ton, which makes me think again about a full EV. Met up with a few mates over the weekend who drive Toyota Hybrids, and made me think again. But then I hear about the horrible wait times for new cars, and how that's causing the 2nd hand market for some of these cars to skyrocket, it doesn't seem too bright out there...
Would also like to get Solar Panels, but if I do get them, I really like the idea of getting batteries as well, which obviously makes it soo much more expensive.
Do you guys have a second car or this would be your only one? I would probably go hybrid if it was my only one, unless you’re going for a brand new EV. It’s nice the fact you don’t have to rely on gas prices or go anywhere to “fill up” if you can charge at home.
Solar battery will be great if you can afford the upfront cost. I think initially we won’t be but will make sure the install is expandable later on
We currently have two cars, so it would be replacing one of them. Honestly with how little we drive, buying a decent second hand hybrid might be the best (most cost effective) way forward.
Yeah, exactly what we were thinking for solar as well. Make sure that everything is compatible with batteries if we wish to do so in the future.
If you plan on using it for long trips I would say so. Only downside in my view is that hybrids still have all the same basic service costs as a normal car. Still needs oil and filter, spark plugs etc. if you can do basic servicing yourself you can save even more. I do all of ours for our hybrid.
Hmm good point re/ servicing. With your Leaf, whats the servicing look like? There must be some unique stuff that needs to be done for EV's?
Well we've only just got it, but from my understanding it's just brakes, brake fluids, tyres, maybe cabin air filter? I guess you could count wipers and wiper fluid? There is no combustion engine, fuel system or transmission. General things like checking over suspension, wheel alignment, CV boots etc. But this is the same as any normal car.
Brake pads wear slower on hybrids and EV's due to using regen braking (if you don't have a lead foot). Only reason I've replaced the pads and rotors on our hybrid was the dealer stuck real cheap ones on that cracked and were noisy. There was still a ton of pad life left. Was also a learning experience for me to do it myself. You can buy cheaper, but quality parts from places like RockAuto too.
I think it boils down to EV = less interacting components, less servicing requirements, Hybrid = same as a petrol car.
Hmm those are some great points. I really didn't factor in the whole RUC part of it. Hmmm... makes you think a bit. I recently saw the new Prius online and was wondering what they would cost in NZ because they look pretty good - unfortunately they're not bringing them here :(
Nats seem fairly committed to ending the RUC exemption as well.
I think given the popularity of PHEVs, they really need to reconsider the whole scheme, but I also doubt that much thought will be put into it
Ah that's a double blow for carbon emissions, two reasons EVs are less attractive.
PHEVs are an interesting case. I'm not sure what a fair system looks like for them, since different use cases will use larger or smaller shares of petrol/electricity.
Non-plugin hybrid are also interesting. If the intention of petrol tax is road maintenance, how come a hybrid gets to only pay half as much because it's using half as much fuel? Plus, hybrids are the heaviest. Leafs and Model 3s aren't that much heavier than other cars of a similar size, but hybrids are heavier than petrol or electric cars.
Are we looking at a future where all vehicles need to pay road user charges?
It's certainly a complex future I fear. We have a PHEV which I look at positively from an overall km/L basis - but because we live 20mins or so 'from town' we don't do a lot of electric-only running. It would seem we may be penalised for that in the future - hit with both the petrol taxes and the electric RUCs.
Interestingly, having just come back from Auckland, I was astounded at the number of Tesla's on the road - given their price point, it would seem that the EV rebate is going to people who arguably don't need it
Can you explain what you mean by this? There are a lot of used and imported Tesla's being sold now. There are 105 used Tesla's showing on Trademe right now and most won't get the rebate. A freshly imported second hand Tesla that hasn't been registered here yet will get the same $3450 rebate as a $15k freshly imported Leaf. Tesla's styling hasn't been changed at all for some time, so unless you know what you're looking for it's difficult to tell if the Tesla you saw is a 6-7 year old model or a brand new one.
I thought the goal of the rebate is to drive low emission vehicle adoption, with EV's being the newest technology the higher end of the market is where it would be happening first. You can still get partial rebates on imported used Hybrids and EV's depending on that model's emissions.
My point is that Tesla falls firmly into luxury car price range - so rather than incentivising 'average' people to choose an EV equivalent of say a Toyota Corolla, which will then trickle down as it's sold and resold, we're getting an overrepresentation of Merc and BMW buyers choosing Tesla. Perhaps that's to help do their part to reduce emissions, perhaps as a status symbol - it arguably doesn't matter. What does matter is that it appears we're seeing more of the luxury EVs than 'affordable' EVs - and that's going to matter deeply when it comes to adopttion by the masses.
I think the issue then is in terms of pure zero emission vehicles in the last few years Tesla’s have had the most value in terms of technology, range, battery longevity. This is slowly changing. Even now you can get a new MG4 at $40k after rebate which is firmly in the same price range of a new Corolla. We’re starting to see more and more lower priced EV’s coming out from the likes of BYD, Opel, GWM. The real problem is that we’re waiting for the other manufacturers to start releasing EV’s to market.
Have a look on evdb.nz and you can see that there are quite a few models now that are in the 40k range after rebate which is within a new Corolla pricing. More affordable new EV’s are coming, it’s just that the major manufacturers are playing catch up, while Tesla has been doing it from the start, which is why you’re seeing more of them.
I'm less surprised. Down around Wellington, there are Teslas everywhere. But also, there are shiny clean $80,000 utes everywhere too.
I think it's important to understand that the point of the rebate is not to subsidise the less fortunate to buy new cars. The point is that when someone who was already going to buy a new car looks at the options, they find EVs to be at a comparable price point to the petrol equivalent. It's to incentivise new cars to be electric, because new cars become the second hand cars of tomorrow. No one buying a new car needs a subsidy, but if it's not there then people are more likely to choose petrol options.
There was another scheme planned aimed at making EV use affordable for low income drivers (social leasing scheme), but this was canned at the time Jacinda stepped down and the govt did a reset of projects.
I think RUCs should be levied on all cars based on weight and mileage traveled. You can lower gasoline taxes to make it revenue neutral if you want.
This will mean higher RUCs for electrics but that's only fair as they chew up the roads more.