Pathfinder 2e General Discussion

Please note the PFS tag. This needs to be a Rules As Written (RAW) discussion.

When a Druid uses Wild Shape they're using Polymorph to change, let's say into an Animal Form as an example.

First off Mark Seifter has previously confirmed in a How It's Played interview that you can use Handwraps of Mighty Blows to determine (from Wild Shape), "If your unarmed attack bonus is higher, you can use it instead." (With the caveat that it can't be the same, but must be at least 1 point higher than the battle form's attack modifier.)

The Polymorph traits states, "If you take on a battle form with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties. […] Your gear is absorbed into you; the constant abilities of your gear still function, but you can't activate any items." (Emphasis is mine.)

Please take a moment to look at Animal Form and note what's covered under "statistics" (the first bullet list), and what's listed under "specific abilities" (the second bullet list).

So that seems very clear that even if Handwraps allows you to use your unarmed attack bonus, its Item Bonus won't apply. But I have a few questions about other things:

• What about feats, like Fleet (+5 to your base speed)?
• What about Runes, like Striking or Crushing?
• What about magic items, like Goggle of Night (which grant the sense Darkvision)? (And remembering that magic items change size to fit the wearer.)
• (Plus things I'm sure I've not considered, so please mention them if applicable!)

To me it seems that:

• The "statistics" mentioned: AC, Temp. HP, Senses, Listed Strikes*, and Athletics* (*Both have a specifically mentioned override if your own is higher) cannot be changed unless it's by a Circumstance and/or Status Bonus, or a Penalty, since these are specifically called out. But,
• The "specific abilities" mentioned: Speed, Strikes, Damage can be changed since these are not specifically called out.

Does that sound right?

I just rebuild a 5th level character as a Wild Shape Druid and woo boy this stuff is a lot to wrap your head around. Thanks in advance for sharing your experience and insight on this matter!

2023-08-27 Update: I've found a Paizo forum post by Michael Sayre (Design Manager) about how to handle Battle Forms (https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43e5b?About-official-clarifications-erratas-and-FAQS#44):

"Battle forms? Is the number you're looking at granted to you by the spell? Then it can only be affected by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties. It doesn't matter what the thing you're trying to add is, only that it's not one of those things. Is it a number you got from somewhere else, like your normal AC or attack modifier? Then it can be affected by the things that normally affect those statistics, including item bonuses from handwraps of mighty blows and whatever other effects you have that normally change that number or are called out in the effect that let you take on the form. Half the confusion on this front is specifically because Mark gave an "unofficial" answer outside of the FAQ and errata process that ended up being thrown around to muddy the waters, which is exactly why official answers like that are kept to FAQ and errata releases by policy."

So that clears up a lot of the questions I had about Battle Forms, and u/[email protected] was correct in that everything listed is a "special statistic" as far as what can be changed.

However the thing you need to ask your GM about is anything (like a Fire Rune) that adds "additional damage" as that's not an official game term.