this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
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Lemmy Support

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Support / questions about Lemmy.

Matrix Space: #lemmy-space

founded 5 years ago
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“view context” broken b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ (and) lemmy.world has just joined Cloudflare (unrelated) (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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I was trying to work out why it is that when I receive a notification and I click “view context” nothing happens if the msg came from lemmy.world. The screen blinks for a second but gives no prior posts. Well after digging into this, I see that #lemmyWorld has just recently joined the exclusive #walledGarden of Cloudflare.

I think I don’t want users of Cloudflared instances to see my posts because it invites broken interactions. Is there any way to block CF instances at the individual account level?

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[–] Chickenstalker 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

How is cloudflare a walled garden? Stop drinking the koolaid.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It’s restricted access. See the screenshot on the OP.

BTW, Cloudflare is also #centralized, thus defeating the #decentralized purpose of the #threadiverse.

(edit) What’s a “walled garden” to you, if not restricted access?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I agree that a large number of instances all setting behind CloudFlare centralizes those instances and adds a centralized point of failure. But that's where my agreement stops.

  1. All your lemmy interactions are mediated by your instance (dbzer0). If you're having a problem with your notifications, or loading posts, or responding to content that's a problem with your client and your instance. Full stop. If you're instance is having issues federating due to cloudflare, that's certainly a problem, and it would be in your best interest to speak to your instance admins so they can work with the other instances to resolve it. IF you're having problems communicating with your instance, that's between you and them.
  2. Nothing about decentralization says that all instances are required to allow YOU to access their instance. The opposite really, each instance is entitled to run however they want. The fact that you can still view and interact with posts (via your instance) says that decentralization and federation are actually working.
  3. If you're concerned about centralization and walled gardens you should be upset about the disproportionate number of users and communities that exist on lemmy.world. You are true decentralization, those communities should be distributed across the fediverse rather than being at the whims of one instances admins.
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

centralizes those instances and adds a centralized point of failure.

Single point of failure just scratches the surface. It’s also a single point of access control, and a single point of surveillance.

All your lemmy interactions are mediated by your instance (dbzer0). If you’re having a problem with your notifications, or loading posts, or responding to content that’s a problem with your client and your instance. Full stop.

Full stop-- Not in the slightest. If that were true there would be no reason for web-facing publication by lemmy world to logged-out users. Having local copies of lemmy world content is an interaction convenience (and necessary for some ops) but it does not encapsulate the full UX. The discussion is openly visible to different extents from different platforms and angles. This is purposeful. And it’s important. It’s how you validate that you’re not in a malicious or oppressive bubble. You step outside of your instance to see what others see.

Nothing about decentralization says that all instances are required to allow YOU to access their instance. The opposite really, each instance is entitled to run however they want. The fact that you can still view and interact with posts (via your instance) says that decentralization and federation are actually working.

You’re conflating power with ethics. Sure, fedi nodes have power to pawn users to tech giants & push ads, sell data to Google & Facebook, surreptitiously share all traffic with Cloudflare Inc. without so much as even telling their users that their usernames, passwords, and DMs are visible to CF, etc. The fedi is designed to allow this. That does mean it’s just to do so. Evil nodes can and should be called out, exposed, and outcast, which the fedi is also designed to accommodate.

If you’re concerned about centralization and walled gardens you should be upset about the disproportionate number of users and communities that exist on lemmy.world.

I am. And I pointed this out already in another post in this thread. I deliberately join small instances.

You are true decentralization, those communities should be distributed across the fediverse rather than being at the whims of one instances admins.

Yes, but this only scratches the surface. Putting huge numbers of users behind Cloudflare on a single giant node is the most antithetical action a fedi node can do -- and this is what Lemmy World has done.