this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
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Well, is there a trans genocide in the US like the Trans people are claiming? Would you call it a genocide if the racists in America decided that areas with a majority black population should be the ones to starve because of a murderous and uncaring president?
Yeah, you maybe. Or if so they should say that instead of "it's western propaganda, stalin did nothing wrong he was the best" but they don't.
Whatever your opinions, downplaying the severity and hand waving away "murderous and uncaring" isn't a good look, it sounds like Trump supporters dude. "Stalin could kill a man in Times Square and still get elected president."
Oh, so you're suprised people who don't support murder and genocide would expect you to not like your murderous uncaring cult of personality? Yeah, me too. Just shocked I tell ya. C'mon dude be real, "it was just murder and uncaring" is not the W you think it is, they know that, I know that, and deep down I think you know that.
Alright, I'll give that one a read, thanks.
Generally speaking, again: I don’t know who you’ve been talking to or what they’ve said, the push against holodomor isn’t to downplay the extent of death, depravation or suffering. The only thing people are trying to say is that it wasn’t a genocide because it wasn’t a series of decisions that explicitly targeted the ukranian population for eradication.
Just so we can stop retreading this ground: there is no downplaying happening here. A bunch of scholars say that there isn’t evidence for a genocide. That doesn’t mean there wasn’t absolute desolation. In some ways the extent is expanded because we can now include the rest of the volga and kazakhstan, which is the real nightmare but never got the kind of traction ukrane did.
No one thinks it’s a win to have a famine where millions died.
The argument for a trans genocide is based on systemic targeting for eradication and shouldn’t be compared to the famine because one is an event that happened nearly a hundred years ago with an extensive (and evolving) historical context and understanding and the other is something happening right now.
Without equal levels of applied scholarship and a precise framework for analysis, comparing the two ends up being that sort of suffering Olympics vernacular that classier people call crass and I tend to just call shitty.
Another book worth checking out is stalins world. It’s not written sympathetically by any means.