this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2025
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PEP 735 does dependency group solve anything? (peps.python.org)
submitted 20 hours ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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PEP 735 what is it's goal? Does it solve our dependency hell issue?

A deep dive and out comes this limitation

The mutual compatibility of Dependency Groups is not guaranteed.

-- https://peps.python.org/pep-0735/#lockfile-generation

Huh?! Why not?

mutual compatibility or go pound sand!

pip install -r requirements/dev.lock
pip install -r requirements/kit.lock -r requirements/manage.lock

The above code, purposefully, does not afford pip a fighting chance. If there are incompatibilities, it'll come out when trying randomized combinations.

Without a means to test for and guarantee mutual compatibility, end users will always find themselves in dependency hell.

Any combination of requirement files (or dependency groups), intended for the same venv, MUST always work!

What if this is scaled further, instead of one package, a chain of packages?!

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 18 hours ago (18 children)

Throwing out an alternative. Not making the assumption that more TOML is better. Cuz the contents of those requirements.txt files are rw, not ro. I see pyproject.toml as a ro configuration file.

Do you agree or should pyproject.toml be rw?

Another option, strictly validated YAML.

For the configuration section, before parsing occurs, strict validation occurs against a schema.

TOML vs strictyaml -- https://hitchdev.com/strictyaml/why-not/toml/

[–] eager_eagle 2 points 18 hours ago (17 children)

I didn't know about StrictYAML, we're really going in circles lol

TOML is already RW by Poetry, PDM, and uv.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (14 children)

Yeah, but should it be (rw)?

If it's rw, it's a database, not a config file.

No software designer thinks ... postgreSQL, sqlite, mariadb, duckdb, .... nah TOML

Or at least yaml turns out to be not a strange suggestion

[–] eager_eagle 3 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

it's a config file that should be readable and writeable by both humans and tools. So yeah, it makes sense.

And I don't lile yaml personally, so that's a plus to me. My pet peeve is never knowing what names before a colon are part of the schema and which ones are user-defined. Even with strictyaml, reading the nesting only through indentation is harder than in toml.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

You are not wrong, yaml can be confusing.

Recently got tripped up on sequence of mapping of mapping. Which is just a simple list of records.

But for the life of me, couldn't get a simple example working.

Ended up reversed the logic.

Instead of parsing a yaml str. Created the sample list of dict and asked strictyaml to produce the yaml str.

Turns out the record is indented four spaces, not two.

- file: "great_file_name_0.yml"
    key_0: "value 0"
- file: "great_file_name_1.yml"
    key_0: "value 0"

Something like ^^. That is a yaml database. It has records, a schema, and can be safely validated!

The strictyaml documentation covers ridiculously simple cases. There are no practical examples. So it was no help.

Parser kept complaining about duplicate keys.

[–] eager_eagle 1 points 3 hours ago

It has records, a schema, and can be safely validated!

uh... a database implies use of a database management system. I don't think saying that a YAML/TOML/JSON/whatever file is a database is very useful, as these files are usually created and modified without any guarantees.

It's not even about being incorrect, it's just not that useful.

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