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this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2024
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Late Stage Capitalism
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One main issue with our progressive neighbors is they like to co-opt movements and take control of them and fight our class interests to protest the status quo.
I see what you're saying. If progressives do this, what do you suggest? Are you left of progressives? Sorry, I'm new to actively participating in these types of conversations. I want to help fight the status quo, hang billionaires and take care of marginalized peoples.
The entire left basically has been fucked over by any given faction of the left. Anarchists lose or fail to mobilize, state communists decide to start fighting the rest of the left before the revolution is even over and tend to leave gaps for authoritarian crackdowns, progressive liberals don’t actually want to overthrow capitalism (and have this tendency to survive revolutions better than dedicated anarchists and communists), trotskyists show up in Mexico with an ice pick in their kidneys…
We need to circle the wagons anyways. Are any of these things worse than fascism? We can fight each other when we’re done, but until then we can fly black, blue, and red flags together, and maybe we can try to find a works we’re all ok living in and make that instead of just fighting each other
I'm way left of progressives. They should have a voice but they need to understand this isn't their movement to lead, most times they get in the way.
There aren't enough leftist to be a movement. Accept less than perfect and you'll get progress.
I'm a supporting of progressives but it's the take over by mind leftist making the entire movement about sex and gender roles when there's far bigger issues at play. I support these movements, but they coopting the left movement has made the right wing so powerful, even those who would be progressives have gone further right. I'm sick and tired of non European/american people been blown to bits to make shareholders richer while progressives talk about the "massive" difference they made in extending gay pride by 3 more days or some shit
It's a privilege to not be the oppressed in our country. I hope you appreciate it as much as you make light of it.
But it's not either or. Working together we can have both. But they take a differing amount of time and effort. Protecting oppressed people in this country is hard. Dismantling the military industrial complex and fighting against the billions of dollars at stake is just a touch harder. But if you want to keep people outside the country safe, you must first control the power inside this country.
How can you most quickly do that?
100% friend, the freedoms these novements give I'm absolutely for. I'm sorry. I guess what I mean was my issue is in the extremity of the movement. Give you an example, I've supported trans, lgbt, gay rights since before, it became a huge movement and still do. But I think the effects of corporation. Holidays and some other culture war issues distract from the much pressing topics. Are these topics pressing? Yes, but there are also less than 1% of the population. I'm ethnically south asian born in scotland, and we do things better than most but it's hard to see people that look like me discriminated against or how medias potrayals entire groups as terrorist or savages while also teaching us history of "never again" this is my left wing foundation. I just want equal rights for all humans, regardless of caste, creed or sexual orientation.
You're right, my friend, we need to work together and it will take time and effort. Everything you say I wholeheartedly agree with
Only 1%, for sure. But history is important. Hitler went after the gays before the Jews. He had to gauge how people would react to minor tyranny before going full out.
Which is to say.. we have a lot of work to do these next few years to keep up the pressure.
You make a very solid point. Externally, I fight for these people, I guess the whole gaza genocide is making me question everything. I stood by so many groups, and now when it was time for us, I saw hate marches in uk, death to arab chants in Amsterdam. But the world is slow, and i think peoples eyes are opening in new ways, not seen before. You're religious, background of ethcnictt doesn't matter, the real enemy Is the class conflict with the tiny miniscule amount of humans at the top
In your eyes, how can we keep the pressure up?
Calling representatives. Run for local office, including school boards. Be active in the community. Donate and help those in your community.
And more nefariously...
Spread confusion and false information on their social media. Call companies who donate to candidates you don't like and complain, or just waste their time. Don't pre-comply to rules you think they'll implement. Be difficult. Be annoying. Slow them down.
That sounds a lot like liberal 'shut up and do as you are told' People have done that for decades and the only people things get better for are the rich.
We don't want perfection, we want equality and equity
And then you'll continue to get nothing while your opposites succeed at the game. You think evangelicals don't want perfect authoritarianism? Of course they do. But they're smart enough to know that they can only get there inch by inch by working with the middle over time, and not seeming extreme.
You can either get over yourself and work strategically, or you can continue to fail against those that do.
And as your pride prevents the former, we slide farther right. But go on, stomp your feet about it. Maybe this time it'll help.
Your comment still screams of BlueMAGA bullshit. Liberals are the biggest obstacles to progress and are enablers of fascism. They are toxic to movements
shrug I can't make you successful
Even your reply is condescending and is minimizing the struggle of other people. You're implying that the only way to achieve success is to do it the liberal way. And despite liberals doing it the same way for decades, your material conditions are identical to my material conditions. States like California with a bulletproof Democrat super majority do not have any better material living conditions than someone in a red State like Alabama
The only way to achieve success is together. You can either meet them in the middle, or change their minds.
Unless you know another way?
Liberals are incapable of compromise. We've tried it their way for decades and their method doesn't work. They are right wing reactionaries.
So that's a "no" to having another way? Sounds like you think your goals are impossible to achieve.
My goals do not include negotiating with people fighting against the working class