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Vote socialist. Democrats and Republicans are both pieces of shit! (lemmy.ml)

submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (8 children)

I agree with your point about the material conditions in post war US and how they helped propagate the idea of American exceptionalism but the Red Scare was actually mass brainwashing/propaganda. This is a good look at the media of the time: Anti-communist politics of the red scare

https://coldwar.unc.edu/theme/the-red-scare/

https://daily.jstor.org/how-hollywood-thrived-through-the-red-scare/

I'm aware of what was pushed and why, but those ideas would not have taken hold had the Material Conditions not supported them. "Brainwashing" is a vibes-based answer, the truth is that the base and superstructure support each other.

While there was a true threat in terms of espionage, it was overblown by McCarthy for political gain. The US hegemony was being threatened by a rising communist bloc. The capitalists had seen the impact of progressive policies such as the New Deal and were scared of losing their influence. The establishment of the PRC in 1949 stoked the fears further. It go so bad that the Communist Control Act was passed in 1954. It prohibited members of the Communist party, who were otherwise American citizens, from holding office in labour unions. McCarthy had used anticommunist propaganda as a partisan tool and it is still being used by the right. What’s interesting to me though, is that American right-wing media had managed to push the Overton window so far to the right that they decry the policies of the Democratic Party as being communist.

I'm aware of hoe it happend and what it entailed. However, I maintain that it is due to the unique material conditions of America as the world's largest Empire in the context of a competing Communist superpower. The material conditions pushed the ideas, not the other way around.

I'm a Communist, I am performing Marxist material analysis on it.

[–] serendepity 1 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Of course it was because of the material conditions at the time and because the capitalist class felt threatened by the rise of communism and felt a need to combat it. It was still propaganda though and it has irreparably damaged the American psyche. Btw, the material conditions at the time were not all hunk-dory either. There was massive wealth disparity between “white” Americans and African -Americans. Minorities were still fighting widespread discrimination which prevented them the enjoy the same freedoms and prosperity as the rest of America.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Of course it was because of the material conditions at the time and because the capitalist class felt threatened by the rise of communism and felt a need to combat it. It was still propaganda though and it has irreparably damaged the American psyche.

Again, I encourage you to reject the "brainwashing" narrative. The conditions came before the ideas.

Btw, the material conditions at the time were not all hunk-dory either. There was massive wealth disparity between “white” Americans and African -Americans. Minorities were still fighting widespread discrimination which prevented them the enjoy the same freedoms and prosperity as the rest of America.

Absolutely correct, material conditions don't mean equal prosperity. How familiar are you with Historical Materialism?

[–] serendepity 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It absolutely was propaganda because the capitalist class perpetuated the lie that progressive policies would hurt the country. Neoliberals, through the use of rhetoric in the media, helped popularize the idea of the infallible free market – that was propaganda. Nation states don’t have to staunchly be strictly capitalist or communist; social democracies do work, with the caveat that citizens have to be well-informed and act as stewards to protect and exercise their electoral rights in shaping a nation.

I’m well aware of Historical Materialism. My contention to your larger point, in short, was that the way forward has to be meticulous and measured. Accelerating the downfall of the system in place will have a real, disastrous impact on the lives of the existing working class. We cannot destroy lives on the promise that it will get better. Class consciousness is step 1, but we’re not even there yet.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It absolutely was propaganda because the capitalist class perpetuated the lie that progressive policies would hurt the country. Neoliberals, through the use of rhetoric in the media, helped popularize the idea of the infallible free market – that was propaganda.

It was propaganda, yes. It did not "brainwash" the masses, if the material conditions weren't fit it wouldn't have done anything.

Nation states don’t have to staunchly be strictly capitalist or communist; social democracies do work, with the caveat that citizens have to be well-informed and act as stewards to protect and exercise their electoral rights in shaping a nation.

Social Democracy doesn't work, the Nordics are seeing erosion of worker power and safety nets, and they depend on Imperialism to fund their safety nets.

I’m well aware of Historical Materialism. My contention to your larger point, in short, was that the way forward has to be meticulous and measured. Accelerating the downfall of the system in place will have a real, disastrous impact on the lives of the existing working class. We cannot destroy lives on the promise that it will get better. Class consciousness is step 1, but we’re not even there yet.

It will not get better without Revolution.

[–] serendepity 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

No comment on the real cost of a revolution? I guess we disagree on a fundamental level. Good day.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The question of Reform vs Revolution is already answered, Marxists believe Revolution is the only way to bring about Socialism, which is correct.

[–] serendepity 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You still haven’t answered my question and are instead falling back on dogma. Revolutions work when the oppressed are acutely aware of their oppression and unite against the oppressors. You cannot realistically do that when half the working class thinks that that are the beneficiaries of capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

You cannot realistically do that when half the working class thinks that that are the beneficiaries of capitalism.

I mean, they are. The US Proletariat is among the Labor Aristocracy, they benefit from Imperialism dramatically. The fall of Imperialism will drive the US Proletariat to revolution.

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