this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2024
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Hey, we're not supposed to use that word anymore, no matter how accurate it is.
you don't get to "reclaim" fag unless you're queer fyi
No one gets to reclaim it. You're inciting the divisiveness, it should just not be used if it has to be censored depending on who you are. It's archaic.
Be better.
Gay people get to reclaim that word from people who want to use it as a pejorative.
Sure, but fag isn't one. Queer at least has an actual use case scenario compared to fag. Unless you're making an effigy or smoking in certain regions. The meaning the word has no intrinsic reason to be gated if you want it to be a real word.
and what if my use case is self denigrating myself for the purposes of humorous shitposting. Seems perfectly appropriate in this use case as far as i can tell.
If that's how you get off, but not encouraged in a public space. I do it all the time. I'm not saying censor yourself around folks over this one word.
I'm saying compared to it's history and how it can be used, it doesn't have much space for common talk. Queer is able to be a concept that is useful to bridge slurs. It's able to converted into something. Fag however just had a hateful history in the internet because America.
I'm talking about it completely objectively.
LGBTx communities with young folks for example are those who don't know the value and the difficulty. It's taken for granted. The word just shouldn't be promoted in positive light openly, but talked about it's history openly of talked about with those you'd like to use.
Dude why am I explaining manners and not being a bad impression on kids in private spaces/platforms.
i guess, so, but i don't consider lemmy to be a public space in the same way i don't consider a private institution a public place, there isn't really a public place on the internet to begin with, unless you're trying to appeal to the general public i guess.
i feel like this is a really regressive understanding of language, I mean sure the history of the word fag is bad and negative, but gay people are quite literally more socially accepted now than ever in society. Using the word fag. Especially as a queer person or in a context in which it would make sense is literally just ironic now. Wouldn't this be a productive thing for society? Using a word which we once believed to be negative in an ironic way that so aggressively downplays it's original meaning so heavily that people stop caring about it?
i mean sure, so am i, it's just a word, it's not going to stab you.
i mean maybe, but i feel like we should probably still be happy about what we've managed thus far, new generations aren't going to behave the same, and they're not going to experience the world the same, expecting literally anything else from them is unreasonable. If they do pick up fag again, and it's not actively harming anybody anymore, what's the problem? That seems like an even bigger win to me if anything. You've done so much work that a problem is no longer a problem, and is now even socially acceptable to the point of ironic humor.
eventually, you have to hand over the torch and just trust that they've learned best what to do.
also, it's weird that you used lgtbx instead of lgbtq considering that's what the q is for.
idk great question lol.
You equated the most open social media platform to a private institution. That's a new take for sure.
Notice how you described yourself as a queer rather than just saying you're a fag? It's just not that useful in common speak.
Also did you really just say it's okay to use a fag in an ironic way doesn't downplay it's original meaning, it just perpetuates a way for those naive to get hurt. Like young autistic people will struggle with these things growing up.
I guess ladderpulling is okay once you have what works for your needs but not other's though.
Your whole ideology seems to be at conflict with itself. I stopped caring about this conversation.
yeah, but like i said, the internet isn't really comparable to the public though. You can just go outside, you can't really just go on the internet, for one thing you have to pay for it, and for another thing whatever entity you engage with on the internet, is a private entity, be it reddit, lemmy, twitter, it's all private, lemmy is just privately owned by uber nerds.
There is no "social good" on the internet, it doesn't exist.
i think that's probably my phrasing, but this is a little presumptive. And to be clear, the reason i used queer in that sentence instead of fag is the same reason you use shit/fuck/bitch/dick in different situations.
If i came here to shitpost and not have a genuine discussion my entire conversation would've been "yeah and im a fag too get fucked lmao" and i wouldn't have said anything else beyond that because it would've made my point.
i believe i said it was ok to use it in an ironic way, because it's being used that way now. I think there is probably a way to use it fine in a genuine manner, but that's a completely different context as well. And probably not fucking around and joking with friends.
i also believe that downplaying a words meaning collectively is a good thing, a word being less offensive, is objectively good for society. And in turn with this, if the primary issue here is kids/teens, we should be educating them on how to joke around with these things, and how not to be an asshole to other people, rather than not using this word generically.
i'm for pulling the ladder out from under homopobes and the words they use, as well as most other people like this.
What i'm not for is leaving the ladder available for anybody wishing to be offensive to other people.
i mean maybe, but the only reason why shit is offensive at the end of the day is due to the broad social acceptability of the thing it's directly relating to. When things are more socially acceptable, these things stop being as offensive, the only reason they're ever offensive is because of the intent behind them. But when you have a significant enough social pressure against something, the very force behind that term starts to supersede the term making it appear as if the term itself is actually bad, where as it's just the social influence behind it.
Queerness is vastly more acceptable today socially, than it was thirty years ago. Trans people today are experiencing similar shit to what gay people (and trans people back then) were experiencing. That's the reason that specific subset is so directly threatened.
"Uber nerds" I really don't think you understand the concept of federated social platforms. It's not owned by a private entity. It's owned ran and maintained by folks like you and me.
You have to be a troll, you CAN just go on the internet. R u ok?
yeah and that's still private ownership. If i buy for, pay for, and host a server in my home that runs a lemmy instance, that's all privately owned, it doesn't matter that joe from kentucky can create an account and log in on it. It's still private.
The idea of public ownership is based soley on a government entity holding land for public good, think a national park. Or like, roads.
If you pay for it, and people let you, you absolutely can. If i decided that i wanted to be a racist fascist tomorrow i would get banned pretty quickly because this lemmy instance isn't for the public good, it's for community good. Sure i could move to another instance, but they all have the same underlying problems.
And technically a lot of these would apply to public land as well, just for different reasons.
Shut up removed
I wanna be divided from idiots like you so that's okay
bro who cares words are words, say whatever the fuck you want where the fuck you want as long as you aren't directly offending anyone. Keeping these words behind a pedestal does nothing but hurt everyone.
i got into an argument semi recently over whether "pansy" was a homophobic slur, i don't think anybody even knows that is was used as one today lmao.
I never said don't say it.
I'm just saying, in public spaces or sites where kids can be. I try not to say those words? They're impressionable and it's just not constructive, sure they have their place in jests or lustful talk.
I consider it manners.
i mean sure, but this is lemmy, not a fucking cod lobby, how many children do you think are on lemmy? There's shit tons of porn here.
There's a time and place for everything, including behavior and language, an individual should be able to gauge whether they use certain words in certain places.
sure it's manners, but sometimes breaking manners to make a point is more important.
I didn't say lemmy, I fully agree about it all. However I am talking about in general.
then you're being a little presumptive about the capabilities of another person, then again this is the internet.
I assume greatness for all my kin. However, nihilism runs rampant in the echo chambers of the internet.
personally i assume nothing for nobody, as i am pretty well disillusioned with humanity. But yes the internet is very nihilistic.
Yes but when you assume someone is great they tend to fill the shoes made for you. However it's something you should assume of yourself as well, but be kind whenever we aren't. It's a simple belief.
i try, i'm just pretty brash and brazen most of the time lol.
I don't know, no one gets called a fag and thinks on what they did. It's just baseless aggression, rather than communicating anything of value.
If you have strong opinions, voice them like a man. Not like a beast growling.
Always a good course to take. I'm only saying that the right words at the right time can make a difference. We shouldn't fear words with a bad history if they have a useful place in the present.
They aren't feared, and they aren't useful? Queer for example is still useful since it was embraced and used to define ambiguous or questioning folks. Fag is only useful if you're asking me for a cig or you wanna make some effigies.
So you want to reclaim "removed" from the gay community, and turn it back into a hate slur? Get fucked, homophobe.
that would admittedly be pretty based though, what a fucking shitpost that would be.
We grew out of those words for a reason. There's a million other ways you can describe those people. I know you're not attempting to be homophobic, but just for the sake of language, it's crude and lazy to just use that in place of ways you could much more creatively insult somebody. That word doesn't need to be reclaimed, and really has no value worth bringing back.
That is not what those words mean and you don't get to personally decide they mean something else. We have words for those definitions already; Idiot and Asshole.
Retards smoke fags.