On one end there's Riley, wanting to turn back the clock to an age where there were forums and communities freely searchable on the internet, and lamenting centralization.

"I don't want to do that [joining the fediverse]. I really just want the internet to be fixed".

On the other end there's Jakob, making a case that the clock can't simply be rewinded back, and that the solution for a modern internet without centralization is....a modern internet without centralization.

"You're like: 'Hm, my issue is all of these different places are closing off themselves and there's all this information and stuff on the internet that's becoming centralized, gated' - decentralization is what the fediverse is!"

As for Riley's point about "If I join the fediverse, and no-one's there, I'm cutting myself off from culture": This is exactly why these platforms are closing themselves off. They're seeing that even if people want something different (and Riley has expressed this desire throughout the entire podcast), the fear of not being able to keep our things can be a strong incentive to never improve one's situation. And there's no better proof than his own statement. It works.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The solution: Something something, be the change you want to see in the world.

Personally, I think it doesn't matter if he joins the fediverse now or in 10 years or ever. It doesn't matter if the fediverse grows, dies or stays like this. He has the choice, now, to be part of a better internet, regardless of whether it will completely change the internet landscape as we know it or not. There's always going to be moments where a decision has no material benefit over the other and can sometimes even be more inconvenient. The only reason is: "That's what I believe in". What happens in the future is out of his control. He can simply pick his side.

This way, regardless of whether the culture on these closed-off platforms forever stays on there, he knows that his contributions to culture, may that be an upvote, a comment (yay!), a podcast or a post, is a contribution to all and therefore truly becomes part of culture.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

I agree with your point. I‘d like to add that it should become illegal to close off digital spaces and they need to provide an API for intercommunication, free of charge. Of course, there needs to be room for making scraping for profit or just plain overwhelming servers for competitive reasons as hard as possible.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

You know, I like to think of participating in the fediverse as being part of the construction of what internet culture will become.

It's literally a chance to be on the ground floor of the next iteration of the internet. Maybe you'll make something that lasts.

Yes, you don't get to sit back and passively consume vast swathes of content, but maybe that's good for your creative process.

[–] silentknyght 4 points 3 months ago

I mean, I interpreted that as acknowledgement that Lemmy is still 1% the size of Reddit, for example.

[–] ekZepp 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

That was just lazy talking. No one force him to use exclusively the fediverse. Still good advertising for Lemmy, at least more people will become curious to try it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I think his heart's in the right place. I don't think a tech-centered host should have any reservations or prejudices about trying out new stuff, but he's also someone that covers 20+ tech stories each week. I don't blame him for thinking the fediverse is just another R1 Rabbit. Nevertheless, he's surely not oblivious to how he came across in this podcast and might be more open next time. Just in case, here's the perfect 1-minute intro: What is the Fediverse?

Jakob, on the other hand, is a real Lemmineer. Or....Lemming.....Lemur? Whatever 🤝

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Lemon