this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 27 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (23 children)

Oh, I got an idea. Let's bomb the shit out of them, including a bunch of weddings, reinvade, and install another heroin kingpin as President.

Look, the Taliban is shit and these stories are truly horrific, but where was the coverage of Afghanistan the last 10 years?

Whenever I read these stories, all I see, aside from the obvious human misery and evil, is a media class that is continually trying to rewrite history to somehow justify the failure that was the 20 year occupation, and discredit the withdrawal.

I hope this woman gets justice and I hope things improve for women in Afghanistan. But I also want the Western audiences not to be the blinded by the sinister intent that is behind a lot of the Western Afghanistan media coverage.

Not because they should dismiss this women's story, or those like hers, but so they don't forget what a failure the NATO adventure in Afghanistan was. So they don't believe that the next war, should go on forever, or that expeditionary military force and occupation can be used to improve women's rights.

[–] Belastend 20 points 4 months ago (16 children)

things wont improve for women in Afghanistan, as long as the Taliban are in power. I hope thats clear.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (15 children)

.....and how many more years of military occupation would have prevented that?

[–] Belastend -5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Years of competent and cooperative occupation? 5? Thats how long it took in Germany. Probably a bad example, but it is possible. And the occupational force reaaaaally has to work to combat the reasons for this. Under the US Occupation women had a lot more rights and presence in society. The PMCs and scumbags that led this regime however did nothing else to attract loyalty from the afghan soldiers.

Years of extractive Nationbuilding? fuck if i know.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Years of competent and cooperative occupation? 5? Thats how long it took in Germany.

I'm having flashbacks to Iraq, or rather talking to Americans about the thing when they were all gung-ho about it. "It's going to be just like Germany!" is what you always say, completely ignoring that Germany had a democratic tradition, proper civil society, well-educated population able to re-industrialise in a couple of years, Universities that pre-date Columbus, and in many ways created those very values you claim you instilled. Do I have to remind you of the US's domestic Apartheid policies at that point in time gods fucking thanks you didn't instil shit.

Also the occupation of Germany lasted 45 years (1945-1990) but that's a technicality.

[–] Belastend 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Iraq was an absolute shit show and nowhere near as competently planned as the German Occupation.

Yeah, drawing up an entire rebuilding plan, funding years and years of developement in that country is definitely the same as throwing ones hands in the air and yelling "THE FREE MARKET WILL FIX ALL OF THIS" while disregarding any local democratic initiative. Torturing the civilian population, releasing the entire army on day one, thereby creating 400.000 armed and disappointed men.

Iraq did not fail because the Americans or the West couldnt. It just had no interest at that time.

Btw, the democratic tradition in Germany was barely 14 years old and was hated by more than 30% of its pre war population. We had just come out of commiting the worst genocide in history and most of us cheered for it.

I cant mention it enough: Under the american occupation, afghan women and minorities enjoyed more protection and participation than they ever had in the last 100 years. And as soon as the military presence went away, women were kicked out of public life and the Taliban started ethnically cleasing the Hezaras.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Btw, the democratic tradition in Germany was barely 14 years old

The SPD was founded 1863. Germany had been a constitutional monarchy with a parliament for quite a while, based on Prussia's introduction of the thing in 1848. That was introduced not so much by grace of the King but because of the people demanding it.

And, no, the Americans didn't have a plan going into Germany, either. Not having plans is kind of their thing. They didn't even plan on entering the war, remember. I could go into endless detail here but that e.g. VW still exists is due to the Brits, definitely not US policy, and let's not forget the French keen on overcoming arch enmity and turning it around into European integration.

We had just come out of commiting the worst genocide in history and most of us cheered for it.

For claiming to be German you know preciously little German history.

Under the american occupation, afghan women and minorities enjoyed more protection and participation than they ever had in the last 100 years.

Yes. And it was a grave mistake to not arm the women. Imagine the Taliban trying to take Kabul if there were two or three women battalions around, very much fighting in self-interest, calling their male colleagues limp-dicked over not putting up a fight.

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