this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2023
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Antiwork/Work Reform
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A community for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.
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Date Created: June 15, 2023
Date Updated: July 17, 2023
Library copied from reddit:
The Anti-Work Library 📚
Essential Reads
Start here! These are probably the most talked-about essays on the topic.
- The Abolition of Work by Bob Black (1985) | listen
- On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber (2013) | listen
- In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell (1932) | listen
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Wait, what?! Morality doesn't play into it?! Well, then why do people need to be compensated? You can just stab them after they make the thing you want.
I'm almost afraid to tell you that bullets are cheaper than most things you can get by shooting people who carry said things.
Also, "grow your own food". Sure, on what land? Is no one going to stop me from uprooting crops on land owned by others so I can grow my own? What tools will I use? Do I make my own from sticks and rocks, or do I take the tools owned by others?
What your proposing is insane. I think you need to touch some grass.
People need to be compensated otherwise they will stop producing.
Let's say you own a bakery and you make really good donuts. Maybe the best donuts in town. Every day you get up at 5 AM to make a fresh batch and put them out for sale.
And every day, every single one of them gets stolen.
How long before you just stop making donuts?
https://youtu.be/petqFm94osQ
Most people don't own a bakery.
"Let's say you are a king isn't feudalism awesome?"
Let's say you have bills to pay and some idiot on the internet thinks money is imaginary.
Sorry, I deleted my comment because I realized that I misread the post I was replying to.
To respond to this post, yes, that is problematic if you care about the workability of the system, but if you have morals, then weather or not the system works is moot.
And, again, morals don't enter into it. People deserve to be paid for the work that they do, and it doesn't matter what that work is.
Isn't that what the whole "anti-work" is about? Paying people what they deserve to be paid, right? Why do you think people involved in food production or distribution deserve any less? They work as hard, or harder, than you or I do. Nobody should expect them to work for free "because food should be a right, man!"
Ok, but why do people deserve to get paid for their work? That seems like a moralist statement. Is there deeper rational supporting that statement, or is that a moral imperative for you?
Edit: to be clear I'm not disagreeing with the premise, I just want your reasoning for arriving at it.
Super simple. My time is valuable to me, if you ask me to contribute my time for something that benefits you, I need to be compensated for my time.
I can choose to donate my time, but doing so comes at a cost to me and if I contribute too much of my time, then I can't pay bills, my electricity gets turned off, I get evicted, and so on.
Do you value yourself so little that you work for free? If so, I've got some housework you can do!
Yeah, this. This right here. This is exactly why your argument falls apart.
We have people in the US who have jobs, but can't afford to keep a roof over their head and to feed themselves. The argument people are making is that they deserve food, and not to fucking starve to death. You're arguing that they need to give someone money so they don't starve.
People are arguing what work they do shouldn't matter, and you're agreeing. But because of the western views on capitalism and western views on social programs, you're claiming that the food producers won't get money and therefore are essentially saying these people should starve.
These people tend to work jobs that the upper class doesn't want to do. But for some reason, you're arguing they also don't deserve appropriate pay or the right to a safe life.
You adjust for that by making sure everyone is paid, not by paying food producers nothing.
People working to produce and distribute food deserve to be paid like anyone else. You don't provide for other people by making food free, that's how you ensure NO food gets produced.
See:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/migrant-workers-said-to-be-leaving-florida-restrictive-new-immigration-drivers-license-law/