this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
870 points (98.2% liked)
Lefty Memes
4407 readers
25 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Well aktually, Johnny Cash issued a statement to the KKK telling them his first wife wasn’t black and appeared to have some racist attitudes in his youth, though he did come around later on and I wouldn’t say he was racist. Her heritage is described:
Though in other images in the same article she doesn’t appear black at all, so I’m not sure. There seemed to be different attitudes about what was considered “black” in that time.
So she may have been more upset that he responded at all, not necessarily being upset that he said she wasn’t black.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/05/16/johnny-cash-first-wife-vivian-black/
Sicilians were sometimes "black" in the jim crow south. I couldn't find the citation, but at least one black dude avoided getting murdered after it was discovered the woman he was sleeping with was sicilian. I think the anecdote is from Isabelle Wilkerson's Caste.
Irish and Italians were Catholic, which was enemy #3 to the KKK right behind black and jewsiwh people. Irish and Italians weren't even considered white for the first half of the 20yh century
I thought that the irish were always considered white but faced discrimination due to their nationality itself, along with religion, and typically being poor, more like being viewed as a “lesser” category of whites
Interesting, the basis of that is so strange
It’s not strange if you know the history of KKK. They trace their roots back to the Orange Order.
The orange order is a sectarian group in Northen Ireland and Britain (outside Northern Ireland they are mainly west Scotland). They are pro-Protestant, pro-Monarchy and pro-Union (union between the nations of the UK). When the USA became a republic outside the UK they lost two of their three defining factors. So they replaced it with racism, but kept the sectarianism.
They still share similar rank structures. The KKK burn crosses, the orange order are fans of large bonfires often burning effigies of the pope. The KKK didn’t seem to keep the flute band marches, but both do march in silly dress costumes.
Despite their large presence in Northen Ireland with many of their members being born on the Island of Ireland, they wouldn’t claim themselves as Irish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7meZZeYllo
Catholicism was a huge part of it. The KKK was extremely active in New England, particularly in Maine, against the French-Canadian diaspora. At one point over 20% of the population were card carrying members, more than Alabama or Mississippi! The anti french laws it established were repealed only in the 60s.
Could you tell me where I can read more about this ? specifically the french-canadian new england stuff ?
Here's some quick links to get you started:
https://www.ledevoir.com/societe/608667/histoire-quand-le-kkk-faisait-sa-loi-contre-les-canadiens-francais-du-maine (In French)
https://www.mainememory.net/sitebuilder/site/2122/page/3514/display
https://www.centralmaine.com/2017/02/05/ku-klux-klan-emergence-in-1920s-maine-offers-lessons-for-today/
https://www.seacoastonline.com/story/news/local/york-star/2010/03/04/the-king-kleagle-maine-s/51686485007/
https://umaine.edu/news/blog/2016/11/22/wvii-interviews-segal-story-kkks-history-maine/
This has been mostly erased from the history books, much like the rest of French Canadian history in the United States.
The Irish are the blacks of Europe, and Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland.
There's the blacks of the UK, the rest of us likes em well enough.
Good old Italian racists would agree with this assessment nowadays.
Did you not read the end of the article you linked? His wife definitely had black roots, but it was a family secret.
Basically Vivian's great-great-grandmother was a black enslaved woman, and her descendents hid this fact to save themselves from Jim Crow laws.
It's possible she and Johnny knew but kept it quiet because they lived in the deep south in a time when it was scary to be in any way black. The 'one-drop rule' is still a thing for a lot of americans, after all. We know that Vivian wife was living in fear of the KKK whenever he went on tour. I would imagine he said whatever he had to say to keep her safe while he was away
Yes, but I was responding the original posts claim that Johnny Cash came out and said his wife was black, which was the exact opposite of what happened. His wife being 1/16 African helps the claim that she had maybe a darker complexion I guess, it's hard to tell with most photos of her being in black & white or potentially colorized. I'm also 1/16 Native American and I really wouldn't claim that I'm actually Native American based off of that (though maybe some scholarships exist that say otherwise).
Her being 1/2 Sicilian may have had a bigger impact on skin-tone, but maybe the African great-great-grandmother was a well-known secret in her family and they tried to hide it as much as possible, I don't know. It's probably more important to ask, "Did she consider herself to be black?" Everyone has their own definition of it, but I've not seen anything that says that she actually considered herself as black, but it's also possible she tried to hide it early on given the racial climate at the time. Is the "One-Drop Rule" still valid here?
The one drop rule is absolutely central to this conversation. Whether or not she was dark-skinned was not why she had threats from the KKK, it's the fact that her complexion and facial features suggest black ancestry that made her a target.
One sixteenth black was still legally black in many States, and Tennessee, where they lived, was the first place to codify this. You're not wrong that her Sicilian heritage could have given her this complexion, but if her Black heritage was proven, as small as 1/16th might be, it would have made their marriage illegal under miscegenation laws. So he had a vested interest in keeping it quiet for both their sakes. He's still progressive and brave for embarking on such a relationship, if indeed be did know of her heritage
A few years ago, I visited Jamaica and was surprised to find out how much everyone there loves Johnny Cash. I was anticipating Bob Marley to be the big name, but it was actually Cash. Didn’t even know there was a connection between him and the country
He had a house there, which I had the chance to visit. I'm quite certain he spent most of his time there. Given his immense popularity in Jamaica, it would be shocking if Johnny Cash had held any racist views.
I'm of Sicilian heritage and Cash's first wife, Vivian Liberto, would look perfectly at home at a family reunion.