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Forgotten Weapons
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This is a community dedicated to discussion around historical arms, mechanically unique arms, and Ian McCollum's Forgotten Weapons content. Posts requesting an identification of a particular gun (or other arm) are welcome.
https://www.youtube.com/@ForgottenWeapons
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/
Rules:
1) Treat Others in a Civil Manner. This is not the place to deride others for their race, sexuality, or etc. Personal insults of other members are not welcome here. Neither are calls for violence.
2) No Contemporary Politics Historical politics that influenced designs or adoption of designs are excluded from this rule. Acknowledgement of existing laws to explain designs is also permissable, so long as comments aren't in made to advocate or oppose a policy. Let's not make this a place where we battle over which color ties our politicians should have, or the issues of today.
3) No Advertising This doesn't apply to posting historical advertisements.
4) Keep Post on Topic This rule will be enforced with leeway. Just keep it related to arms or Forgotten Weapons. If you feel you have something that's worth posting here that isn't about either of those (and doesn't violate other rules) feel free to reach out to a mod.
5) No NSFW Content Please refrain from posting uncensored extreme gore or sexualized content. If censored these posts may be fine.
Post Guide Lines
These are suggestions not rules.
-Provide a duration for videos. eg. [12:34]
-Provide a year to either indicate when a specific design was produced, patented, or released. If you have an older design being used in a recent conflict provide the year the picture was taken. Dates should be included to help contextualize, not necessarily give exact periods.
-Post a full URL, on mobile devices it can be hard to tell what you're clicking on if you only see "(Link)".
-Posts do not have to be just firearms. Blades, bows, etc. are also welcome.
Adjacent Communities
If you run a community that you feel might fit in dm a mod and we might add your's.
Want to Find a Museum Near You? Check out the mega thread: https://lemmy.world/post/9699481
founded 7 months ago
MODERATORS
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The M-28 or M-29 Davy Crockett Weapon System was a tactical nuclear recoilless smoothbore gun for firing the M388 nuclear projectile, armed with the W54 nuclear warhead, that was deployed by the United States during the Cold War. It was the first project assigned to the United States Army Weapon Command in Rock Island, Illinois.[3] It remains one of the smallest nuclear weapon systems ever built, with a yield of 20 tonnes of TNT (84 GJ). It is named after American folk hero, soldier, and congressman Davy Crockett.
Given you'd almost certainly die of radiation poisoning after firing this it never became popular.
They based a fallout weapon on this too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)
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The Borchardt held a seven-round magazine of 7.65 caliber rounds. It functioned well enough, but was bulky and had unexpectedly fierce recoil. The mainspring and lock workings were housed in the bulge behind the grip.
A worthy design for its time, the Borchardt was quickly rendered obsolete by a torrent of better automatic pistol designs...
Unlike the other designs extant at the time, the C93 went into commercial production, and 3000 were ultimately made.
The gun was safe and reliable, and it set the standard for locating a detachable box magazine in the grip, which remains the standard today. However, its very bulky mainspring assembly led to it being a rather awkward handgun to use...
Borchardt’s talents came hand-in-hand with a fair amount of hubris, and he refused to consider the possibility that his pistol could be improved. Several military trials requested a smaller and handier version of the gun, and when Borchardt refused to make those changes, DWM gave the job to a man named Georg Luger. Luger was very good at taking existing designs and improving them, and he transformed the basic action of the C93 into the Luger automatic pistol, which of course became one of the most iconic handguns ever made.
Ian's video [10:41] https://youtu.be/ItpOBQFVIhM
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These items were seized from American U2 pilot Frank Powers in 1960 after he was shot down by the Soviets. Notably including a cyanide pill hidden in a coin, a poison tipped needle, and a integrally suppressed High Standard 22lr pistol.
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Fired as part of Operation Upshot–Knothole and codenamed Shot GRABLE, a 280 mm (11 inch) shell with a gun-type fission warhead was fired 10,000 m (6.2 miles) and detonated 160 m (525 ft) above the ground with an estimated yield of 15 kilotons.
Original Caption:
Frenchman's Flat, Nevada - Atomic Cannon Test - History's first atomic artillery shell fired from the Army's new 280-mm artillery gun. Hundreds of high ranking Armed Forces officers and members of Congress are present. The fireball ascending.
Thought this was interesting, not small arms related, but we don't normally think of nuclear weapons outside of the nuclear triad.
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Original caption:
Women's machine gun squad police reserves, New York City. Practicing with Lewis Machine Gun which is to be sent to the front. The killing range of this gun is 2 miles and it fires 500 shots per minute. Captain Elise Reniger, manning the gun, Miss Helen M. Striffler on the rear seat, and Mrs. Ivan Farasoff driving.
Dated 08/01/1918 (d/m/y)
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The Viper Mk I was an experimental submachine gun developed in the UK for use by military policemen in post-WW@ occupation West Germany. It was a simplified Sten gun (full-auto only, without the semiauto option normally included in the Sten trigger mechanism) put into a wooden housing.
It was intended to be carried slung over one shouldered fired under the arm with just one hand. To this end, it had neither sights nor trigger guard. The whole concept seems pretty questionable, and while multiple different Viper submachine guns were designed to fill this role, none were ever adopted.
Ian's video [9:54]
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The PSS-2, as the name implies is the next generation of the PSS design which was adopted in the 1980s. The original gun boasted the ability to be shot silently without a suppressor due to its special piston based 7.62x42 SP4 ammo.
In order for the PSS to achieve this it needed to use heavy cylindrical bullets to increase the mass to stay subsonic and avoid a supersonic crack. This resulted in the bullets preforming poorly against armor this is where the PSS-2 steps in. It put a wedge shaped tip on its bullets to maintain mass while reducing the surface area that'd touch the vest on initial impact to increase penetration.
7.62x43 SP-16 ammo for the PSS-2
The PSS-2 is a recoil-operated weapon that utilizes an open breech system and is mechanically similar to its predecessor, the PSS. Its unique design includes a mechanism that slows the slide’s movement in its final stages to prevent clanging noise.
https://special-ops.org/pss-2-the-successor-to-the-famous-pss-silent-pistol/
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In 1879, Australian bushranger and outlaw Ned Kelly devised a plan to create bulletproof armour and wear it during shootouts with the police. He and other members of the Kelly gang—Joe Byrne, Steve Hart, and brother Dan Kelly—had their own armour suits and helmets crafted from plough mouldboards, either donated by sympathisers or stolen from farms. The boards were heated and then beaten into shape over the course of several months, most likely in a crude bush forge and possibly with the assistance of blacksmiths. While the suits successfully repelled bullets, their heavy weight made them cumbersome to wear, and the gang debated their utility.
Also on display are Kelly's Snider Enfield rifle and one of his boots.
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This happened about a year ago but figured people here would find it interesting.
Police say a World War I German MG-08 machine gun has gone missing. The device was stolen from the Suffolk County Detachment of the Marine Corps in Bay Shore.
Military armaments historian Dan Templeton, with the Museum of American Armor, says the stolen weapon has gone through a decommission process which makes it inoperable and lacks value without a registered background.
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The most obvious feature of the pistol is the barrel which appears to be positioned, relative to the hand, at least as low as in the Laugo ALIEN, possibly even lower. Indeed, Invenzioni Italiane claims that dropping it further down would generate a negative muzzle jump upon firing. While we can argue that the Chiappa Rhino may actually have a lower bore axis, we can agree that the prototype reaches the limits of what is physically possible in a semi-auto pistol.
The pistol appears to adopt the rather uncommon blow forward operating principle, where the breech face is solid to the frame and the barrel is free to move forward, pushed by the friction of the bullet against the rifling. This allows the spent casing to eject from the chamber and a new round to be chambered when the barrel is brought back by the recoil spring.
The photos shown here depict a homemade, non-functional mock-up, fully compliant with the Italian laws. However, over the years, Invenzioni Italiane was able to test with licensed partners the principles of his designs and he now has a product ready for manufacturing
Read more: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/04/22/low-bore-italian/
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JD Jones’ .950 JDJ cartridge is a generally described as the largest sporting rifle cartridge ever produced, producing more energy than even the 4-bore cartridges that match it in bore diameter. Only three of these rifles were made, and the original loading was a 2600 grain (168g) cast bullet moving at 2200 fps (670m/s), for a whopping 28,000 foot-pounds of muzzle energy (38kJ). There are some antitank rifles that produce more, but nothing comparable in both energy and bore diameter in the sporting realm.
The rifle, named “Fat Mac”, is built on a McMillan stock and action, and was originally produced on special order for a customer who wanted a really (really) big rifle that could use cast bullets. The cartridge cases were originally made from 20mm Vulcan cases trimmer down to a (mere) 70mm case length, with custom made lathe-turned cases replacing them when brass Vulcan cases became too difficult to source. The gun itself weighs a bit over 60 pounds, with nearly a third of that in the muzzle brake alone.
Under American federal law all firearms greater than .50 caliber must be granted a special sporting use exception status to be sold like any other Title 1, without further restrictions. This status is most commonly granted to shotguns as most shotguns are greater than .50 caliber. The presumably charismatic creator of this single shot rifle got that status granted for his creation.
Ian's video: [8:03]
On the range: [1:32]
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ArcFlash Labs has come out with a new coil gun design that takes the best elements of their underpowered EMG-01 and their overly bulky GR-1 Anvil and melded them into a much handier EMG-02.
(GR-1 top / EMG-02 bottom)
This new design maintains the same muzzle velocity as the Anvil (200-250 fps / 60-75 m/s) but uses smaller projectiles (5/16″ armatures).
It is far better handling, with the balance much improved by having a single large capacitor mounted at the rear and a battery directly under the grip. That battery is also now a commercial off-the-shelf rechargeable lithium-ion type.
Ian's video: [17:42]
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The Type 93 Chinese assault rifle is a development of the Type 56 Kalashnikov, produced by the People’s Liberation Army of the PRC. While the Type 93 designation suggests that the design originated in 1993, there is no evidence of production before the mid 2020s at the earliest.
Fundamentally, the Type 93 represents a shift towards a rifle more practical for hand-to-hand fighting, as ammunition supplies became scarcer and more expensive with the progression of the Resource Wars of the 2050s, 60s, and 70s. The barrel and has tube were reinforced, and a new RPD-style handguard added which provides a much better grip for bayonet fighting than previous Kalashnikov models used by the PLA/PRC. However, some changes were also made to improve the shooting effectiveness of the rifle, most notably moving the rear sight onto the receiver cover and extending the sight radius.
Perhaps the most unique feature of the Type 93 is that it was originally produced in 7.62x39mm, for domestic Chinese use. However, the models found in the United States (which come from the invasion of Anchorage as well as Chinese infiltration efforts in the Washington DC area) are all found in 5.56mm.
This change was made to allow use of American ammunition, but limited industrial resources prevented the development of a new magazine by the time this adaptation took place. Instead, the existing 7.62 magazines were kludged to use 5.56mm cartridges, resulting in a capacity restricted to 24 rounds as the basically straight-walled 5.56×45 cartridge does not fit well in a magazine body designed for a more tapered case.
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/infiltrating-america-the-type-93-chinese-assault-rifle/
Ian's video: [16:15]
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Found the patent for the magazine system of the HK36 I shared yesterday so I figured I'd share it here.
The TLDR: Is you'd open the side door of your magazine and put in the clip (green magazine shaped thing below) which lacked a spring, follower, and feed lips into the side door to reload it.
Obviously this idea didn't take off, but it has the unique benefit of simplifying the number of mechanical parts required to carry more ammo.
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Not to be confused with the G36, this project was part of the early stage of the international Advanced Combat Rifle (ACR) program. Utilizing largely synthetic materials, the HK36 was a very lightweight and compact rifle; with an empty weight of 2.9 kg (6.4 lb.) and a length of 89 cm (35.0 in.). It was equipped with the proven roller-locked delayed blow-back system of the G3. The calibre was 4.5x36 mm, and the muzzle velocity of its 54-grain projectile was a modest 780 m/s. This translated into light recoil and excellent controllability, which allowed the cyclic rate of fire to be as high as 1,100 rounds per minute. To compensate for the moderate striking energy, the projectile contained an asymmetric tungsten carbide core, which provided a devastating effect in soft targets, as well as armour piercing capability.
Another interesting feature in the HK36 was the inclusion of an optical collimator sight. But in 1976, H&K decided to pursue another design as their ACR candidate, and for reasons of economy, the HK36 project was put on the shelf. This other design was the G11 rifle firing caseless ammunition.
The unique magazine door of the HK36 that opened to allow disposable inserts, like the one directly underneath the rifle. This particular rifle is said to be one of the only surviving examples of the HK36 project...
Source post for the text: https://www.hkpro.com/threads/hk36.527812/
Further reading: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/04/13/hks-other-4-6-the-4-6x36mm-hk36/
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The US first tested the Luger in 1901, and it seemed potentially good enough that the government spent $15,000 to buy 1,000 of the pistols (in 7.65mm Luger; the only cartridge available at the time) for field trials. The trials resulted in a variety of complaints, but particular among them was a dislike for the small caliber. In response, Georg Luger necked the 7.65mm round up to 9mm, and the US would be the first country to trial the new model. After presenting 3 samples in 1903, Luger made a deal to swap 50 of the American 7.65mm pistols for 50 new 9mm ones. The US also specified that new guns had to be fitted with a cartridge counter grip system designed by one Graham Powell. The resulting guns (s/n 22401-22450) were delivered in April of 1904.
American testing did not find the 9mm much more satisfactory than the old 7.65mm, however. At this same time, the Thompson-La Garde tests of terminal ballistics were concluding that a new service pistol should be no less than .45 caliber. Luger would make one last effort to interest the US in 9mm with a duplex load in 1906, but this would also fail. Instead, he would redesign the Luger for .45 ACP and enter that in the US 1907 pistol trials.
The round counting mechanism is operated by a screw that raising with the follower of the magazine as it empties. It is visible through a clear panel on the left face of the pistol for right handed shooters.
The magazines made for it have been specifically modified to ensure when disassembled and reassembled its special follower won't be swapped with a standard, non round counting, follower.
Ian's video: [12:25] https://youtu.be/S3iuBDD5FrA?si=
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Most automatic pistols of the early 20th century were offered with shoulder stock options, and the Luger had more than most. Probably the most interesting one I am aware of is the Ideal Holster Company’s design, which was patented by one Ross Phillips of Los Angeles. Phillips applied for his patent in 1901, and had it granted in 1904. The design uses a set of special grip panels with metal locking surfaces in them in conjunction with some very clever angular geometry to allow the stock to be easily attached and detached when in the short position, but lock tight and secure when the stock is extended to shooting length.
Not many of these Ideal stocks exist today, and it seems that the idea was not commercially viable – or at least it was too expensive to become popular. All of the known examples are marked “Patents Pending”, which would suggest that all manufacture predates 1904, when the patent was granted. Most likely only one batch was made, and they took too long to sell to be deemed worth continuing to manufacture...
Ian's video [8:35]
