Moving to: m/AskMbin!

It's impossible to become a billionaire without extreme exploitation. You can't exploit people or the planet to this degree and be a good person.

I don't understand the obsession with rich people and their not spending/giving money in ways that please others. Also, the notion that wealth can ONLY be achieved through exploitation of others is silly. Has SOME wealth been acquired through exploitation? Of course. But it is easily provable with basic math that living beneath your means and steadily investing long term can result in a very comfortable, and sometimes early, retirement. There is no benefit focusing on what others have, focus on what you are doing. This is straight grown-up advice, if you disagree, you don't have enough life experience yet.

I can't believe no-one has mentioned Chuck Feeney.

He's prettymuch the answer to the OP's question: Can you be super rich and a good person? Yes, but you prettymuch have to make it your life's work to not be super rich any more.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenbertoni/2020/09/15/exclusive-the-billionaire-who-wanted-to-die-brokeis-now-officially-broke/

It goes so much further than just having a surplus of goods and services while so many go without. We've organized society into one that decides ownership through money, and that includes things that make more money. It's a real life broken gameplay bug, it's why there are people maxed out in everything they could ever want without making the slightest dent in their wealth. It's also the cause of a lot of problems stemming from the people making the biggest decisions in the world not being in those positions from merit, intelligence, hard work, or credibility. It's just money, an amount of money that can only come from the feedback loop bug of money making more money. Insurance companies deciding medical treatment, people not even living in the same state owning all the homes and only allowing for renting so they get paid indefinitely with no loss of equity. People with no passion for cooking deciding what the largest restaurants in the world can sell, people owning water itself. Owning creative rights, there are people who created original works that arent even allowed to use worlds and characters they created. Just every industry in the world, ownership by wealth has made worse.

Theoretically... yes and no? First of all it's a given that any truly rich person in today's day and age is a capitalist, no exceptions.

Modern capitalism is based on the assumption that "maximizing profit" leads to the best outcome for everyone... which is not true. So if theoretically a rich person is trying to be 100% rational then they cannot be "good"

On the other hand... also theoretically, rich ppl have a lot more resources to give and support causes they care about, so on this aspect they could be good? I know ppl who donate a ton to social causes but I honestly don't know how much of their donations can be attributed to tax benefits

In practice... I guess most of what you could call "good" people wouldn't want to make that much money in the first place? Or it could just be probability, good people and rich people are both quite rare, so good+rich is even rarer (if we assume they are independent).

A bit late to the party, and haven't read through every comment, so apologies if this is was already stated opinion.

In many (if not most) cases excess wealth is a byproduct of capitalizing on others labor in an unfair way. There was (not so long ago) a time when excess income over a certain amount (say a million) was taxed anywhere from 60-90%. This high level of taxation mixed with the victories of the labor movement standardized that upper management and ownership made around 10X max what their average laborer did. That number has now swelled to 100X-1000X the average salary and with minimum wage (US) basically the same for the last 20+ years.

Beyond having more than you could ever use and depriving a portion to those below you; the systems of capital seem as much about cleaving society into separate castes and classes (as much as anything.) We've had the ability to bring the world out of poverty and hunger for a long time now and instead we've managed to perpetuate myths about those less fortunate being a burden around societies neck. The poor are raised to look at the poorer as impediments to their ascendancy and the idea of base universal standards as rights for humanity have stalled and are largely no longer talked about. Capital has done everything it can to divide people with hate and drain money from the bottom, while maintaining the expectation for never ending growth of markets and resources. This is unsustainable and will eventually lead to rifts that will break governments and societies around the world. Probably faster than most of us think or are willing to accept.

In America so many of us think that we're always one lucky break from rising away from those like us. So as secret millionaires we tacitly approve in the hopes of living better than the rest. Legitimately though, to be rich (from means other than luck (EDIT, see bottom)) will come down to how little you care for exploiting others. If you can take more from those around you and feel less about it, then you could be the next millionaire. And it is this difference in ethics and mentality (possibly psychopathy) that leads to being rich and doing fucked up shit.

I've worked for very wealthy people and they are masters at disguising themselves as adequate people. They are usually very charismatic and can say all the right things without being found out for a very long time. Being wealthy makes people view you as exceptional. You must have been smarter, worked harder, more godly and/or more worthy. As such, people almost always give you the benefit of the doubt much more than they would a regular person. And the rich are exceptionally good at wearing that trust just to the point of breaking for as long as they can. From my experience they are largely on cocaine or prescription stimulants, so that they're always "on point." They buy excessively, without thought and will throw even costly unopened things away. They become bored with life and begin sexual abusing those in proximity to them. These tastes will continue to become more extreme and degrading so that they can feel more power and hurt others more. Hurting people, without consequence, is a great way to assure ones self of how untouchable they really are. They come to enjoy these things and have no care for those they hurt unless it affects them in some meaningful way. They can make up stories that allow them to feel fine about this when it's clear they've done horrific things (DARVO behaviors) and thus will likely never feel any lasting remorse for even the worst of things.

This last part is again from personal experience, but it largely matches over a number of people and I see no difference in the actions of the vast majority of the wealthy. Surely there are some wealthy people who not all of these things apply to, but they are exceptions and not the rule.

We could point to so many things that make the world awful but the overly rich and powerful are a nearly singular point that if toppled could right so many wrongs. Humanity needs a second bill of rights and even beyond a maximum wage, the majority of excess wealth and holdings needs to be taken back and used to fix humanity's course.

All of that certainly isn't going to be happening though, so I look forward to spending the horrifying future with the rest of you poors!

Edit: @Aesthesiaphilia pointed out that inheritance is the largest means of wealth transfer and they are absolutely right. Previously the notated EDIT portion said "to be rich (from means other than luck or some inheritance)" and I've edited out the inheritance portion because you could inherit a million dollars randomly or 500 million. The amount doesn't matter as the generational transfer of wealth between elites has been substantially weakened even recently and it very much folds into the myth of the self made millionaire/billionaire which is not supported by reality.

A priori, yes. Being rich is not automatically incompatible with being good - philantropy is a thing. But depending on how rich, how much or how little they give back to the community, how they acquired/maintain their wealth, etc, you eventually reach a point where the person is simply put a social parasite. And that IS incompatible with being good.

fyi, no one in here is entitled to the wealth of wealthy people. wealthy people are people just like you and I. don't pretend you wouldn't change your tune if you became wealthy

imagine if someone less fortunate than you thought you were a bad person just because you have more than they do

There's a lot of arguments here based on emotions and assumptions rather than logic.

I don't think any person is simply "good" or "bad". A person can perform a "good" deed one moment, and a "bad" deed the next. When people look at someone and judge if they are a "good" or "bad" person, they are usually either: 1) judging that person by the overall sum of their publicly known deeds, or 2) judging that person by deeds they have performed for (or against) the judger.

Being in possession of great wealth is not a deed. A person can come in possession of great wealth relative to other people in a society without taking any action (e.g. inheritance, etc) or without taking any evil action (e.g. winning the lottery, taking profit from a sufficiently large business that doesn't perform any ethical violations, etc).