weirdway

"Still Experiencing a Human; I Hope You're Not Lost"

Originally posted by u/Utthana on 2018-07-21 18:50:04 (90nzmw).

To keep it short and sweet, it sounds like you've lost sight of what you were aiming for right before you immersed yourself again. I recently went through this, but by asking the right people the right questions I was able to piece it back together. I usually refer to this as "looking too close" because it's as if you've lost sight of the "bigger picture."

That doesn't imply the bigger picture disappeared, you've changed the lens / scope you were looking with. Like you went from a magnifying glass to a microscope. My suggestion is that you take a step back, you'll remember that you're probably still going the right way.

Originally commented by u/Scew on 2018-07-22 09:14:09 (e2szhxh)

>Am I a puny spiritual weakling who cannot resist the temptation to become a mindless drone for more than a year at a time?

Mindlessness is probably not beneficial because you can end up making unwise decisions, but living/acting within the world and toward worldly ends isn't some kind of sin. And it's not inherently mindless if it is done willfully and purposefully, even just for some pleasure and/or R&R. It's emotionally draining to spend 100% of your time focused on the long term and giving yourself no short term gratification. So you have to find a balance there, imo.

>Have you developed techniques to deal with this?

Learn more about myself and uncover my unconscious motivations that led me to act in ways that surprised me and that seemed in retrospect to be counterproductive to my larger, more conscious aims. Then try to integrate and manage my motivations/personalities in a way that keeps them from being bottled up and eventually exploding out, while also preventing them from taking over, instead maintaining control over them.

>Do you consider spending some time mindless (as in, the antonym of mindful or aware) important or even vital to understanding reality?

I'd like to think there are degrees of mindfulness and that it's not so much of a switch that you turn on or off. I try to practice being more mindful when I can because I tend to think that generally, right now in my vision, becoming more mindful in nearly everything is desirable for me. I think this because mindfulness is a form of wisdom and will ensure that I live and act and decide in ways that are more in accord with my vision of the future rather than against that vision - I don't fulfill this 100% of the time and neither do I expect myself to, rather I expect myself to at minimum keep a steady-state, and ideally continue to improve.

>And really I'd just be happy to get an update from everyone on what the water's like for them right now. Just dump some thoughts on me, especially u/nefandi, u/triumphantgeorge, and u/aesiranatman, but everyone else too.

I feel like I've finished a lot of the initial, "beginner" level work on my spiritual life in the last couple years. I more or less know what I believe and why I believe it. I have a strong sense of the goal and the path. Now I'm in this very practical place that is more about the practice and exploration of those more fundamental steadfast ideas. I'd say I'm slightly distracted by worldly needs lately, but not to a degree that I am backtracking. I'm just keeping my current spiritual level while I establish a certain level of stability/predictability/comfort to my ordinarily life (as previously my life was rather unstable, unpredictable, and uncomfortable in a way that made it harder to focus on spiritual practice), which I firmly believe will in the end serve to support my spiritual life. So even in my worldly focus, I feel I am still spiritually focused.

Originally commented by u/AesirAnatman on 2018-07-25 21:41:04 (e301gg5)

What's up Utthana? Long time no read. :)

Does anyone else experience this?

Mundanity can sometimes make me temporarily overlook what I know, but not much and not for long.

It's spiritually dangerous, I think, to compare oneself to someone else. Setting aside the fact that there is no way to know where one subjectivity is relative another, even if you did know something like that, how would it help? It would only continue taking you outside your own perspective instead of allowing you to master your own perspective. Of course conventional mentality is to know oneself through what one imagines "the other" knows about oneself, which is the socially constructed identity of "I am who I and the others say I am." I can have a socially constructed identity for myself even inside my own dream. It's basically like playing a certain kind of game with myself.

As I see it, in order not to get lost, you'd have to shift your center of spiritual (intellectual + emotional) gravity into yourself first and the sense then would be that you live inside yourself and what you'd refer to as "the universe" also lives inside you as your dream. You'd have to take yourself as the center and live like that in a lifestyle where all the life "things" come out and go back to you at all times. So you're not the one who goes out (into the world) and comes back (into your home away from the world). You're staying. You're stationary. You're the eternal place. The world comes in and out. When the world comes in, it's your guest. When the world goes out, you're the absolute sovereign of your own solitude. This must be an unbending commitment such that even if you don't think about it, you feel like it's true all the time such that if someone asks you about it, you'd say, "yea, that's right, that's how it is, it is true."

Then even if you do things which some might consider mundane, you'll never ever become mundane yourself. The things of the world will never confuse you once you start living inside yourself instead of inside a universe of some sort. Let the universe live in you.

But, I also think it's a slow process and it cannot be rushed because one has to enter into this process in a sincere and genuine way, which can only happen subjectively whenever one is ready.

In any case, I don't think it helps to freak out, as long as you know what it is you value. If you get confused about your value ladder, what is most important in your life and what is less important, then there might be some trouble. As long as you know you value this beyond-conventional truth of your own being above all else, how can there be anything bigger than simply the smallest possible degree of confusion?

Your will is the law, ultimately. If you know what you're about, all else is certain and the way is broad and stable. And the cool thing is, no one knows if you know what you're about. So if you say you know what you're about I just have to take your word for it, if I want to trust you. If I don't want to trust you, you cannot prove it to me. The point is, it's something sacred between you and you and no one can stick their nose in that for you. Even if you solicit advice, it is still only up to you to determine which meaning fits where inside your own mindset. So even if you solicited advice, even then, no one could stick their nose into your mindset. People always have to be either consciously or unconsciously invited in to participate. So once you grab hold of your secrets, everything becomes secure and simple. You can rest inside yourself with confidence so that if you do anything, it is done well, and if you avoid doing, you rest well. That's excellence in both action and rest. What else is there? This kind of excellence only you can know. Once you know it, you cannot verify it.

Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2018-07-22 14:41:25 (e2tfl01)

[deleted]

Originally commented by u/[deleted] on 2018-07-22 01:21:18 (e2s8tpy)

Replying to your post..

I've undoubtedly spent a lot of time with truly meaningless and mindless things and have spent virtually no time actively practicing wisdom.

I came to the conclusion some time ago that there are no meaningless or mindless things. Even the choices we make that tend towards distraction, tell us about ourselves. We watch movies, for example, that would tell us about our ideals, if we needed them to. We pursue entertainment that pulls at corners of our self just yet emerging. Our choices in entertainment are a reflection of our dreams and visions and nothing is done that isn't significant. Even the choice to not face a pain, but rather to drown it in forgetfulness - that is information-rich, because it points to the pain.

I think a lot of our best work comes about in unfocused states, where we can experience the spontaneity of being. I'm familiar with the traditions (foremost in my mind is Gurdjieff) that rail against the default state of man, for not living each moment 'in the waking being' - and what my teachers have told me is that this lack of self-acceptance vis-a-vis ordinary living is itself as good a guard as any against the manna of the moment. It is a spiritually erudite form of self-dislike, the adept's version of the teenager's plaint: "I'll never be one of the cool kids!".

My understanding is that each one wears the veil here, and when one realizes what a panopoly of worlds the soul had access to before choosing to come to this one, one realizes that the duties of the day are in fact quite perfectly suited to the subtle chiseling and ornamentation of the soul of man. To want more is good, because it inspires seeking. But where the want passes into a disdain for the everyday self, it has missed the balance point and overreached, imo.

Recently, obviously, being here writing this, I've begun to return to a place of contemplation and meditation and, looking back on the last few months, I have a lot to learn and investigate and unpack. It's like I was acting out a film, and now I've taken the role of film critic, except my goal is less about analyzing the content of film and more about deducing the nature of film and video from the footage available.

Does anyone else experience this?

Yeah, I experience something similar.

Am I a puny spiritual weakling who cannot resist the temptation to become a mindless drone for more than a year at a time?

No, but I'd gather from your choice of words, the possible existence of a lack of self-love undergirding what you perceive to be your spiritual seeking. When you moonlight as everyman, do you dislike yourself?

Have you developed techniques to deal with this?

Yes. I've had to work on my "spiritual inferiority complex" and learn to stop compulsively meditating and compulsively gauging my spiritual state. To learn to love myself even when not shooting forth metaphysical fireworks. My humdrum, everyday self.

Do you consider spending some time mindless (as in, the antonym of mindful or aware) important or even vital to understanding reality?

I'm not sure we have the awareness to clearly distinguish between these states, and to authoritatively assess what constitutes one or the other. Sure, we have some vague gauge of how light-filled we are at any one time, but that perception is itself like a weathervane tossed in the wind. My goal is to stop obsessive self-measurement, not to spend each moment on Mount Olympus. I like submersion.

I'm not fully on board with the bifurcation that you are positing. I posit that a lot of limitation and willed self-deception can exist in the guise of whatever states of elevation man believes himself possessed of. I have felt very enlightened at times, and been very much a fool - as became clear years afterward. I believe every step has a thousand levels, so vast is our Father's Kingdom.

And really I'd just be happy to get an update from everyone on what the water's like for them right now. Just dump some thoughts on me, especially... but everyone else too.

I'm walking the same path as I imagine you are: immersion, and practicing disciplines of Will, Faith and Love to fight against the currents of ill-attunement that grab and tug at each of us.

Loving the chance to take each step, loving the penultimate humbleness of my silly piano lessons, loving the opportunity to walk each road, do each silly and seemingly mundane thing that is nevertheless overflowing with purpose, though I struggle to see it. Trying to see the love required in each humble act that pays no great reward, except the reward to be another day with the Creator. The garden of delights so vast and varied, that he let us add our strains of tragedy and strife, to paint it with the colors of our madness, and now it breathes forward into the strangest, most gaudy, most quixotic shapes: each one attesting to the beauty of His light.

Originally commented by u/fortunatefields on 2018-09-20 11:41:42 (e6ak34y)

I find myself losing awareness at times, I tend to reach a level of satisfaction with my understanding and awareness which makes me relax back into old habits. It's like having a cheat day, except it might be for a month or several months... But over time I'm changing that habit/cycle, slowly becoming more and more aware and living everyday with a sense of awareness.

Do you consider spending some time mindless (as in, the antonym of mindful or aware) important or even vital to understanding reality? Or is it a sign or failure instead, and a waste of time or even detrimental? Or is it all about the way you spend such time?

I wouldn't say it's a waste of time since I allow myself to fall back into it, I obviously still find enjoyment in it. And I think that's the reason why this momentum continues, because there remains a desire to have those experiences. I'd suggest it's better to enjoy them than resist them for obvious reasons. In fact, I find releasing the resistance helps to dispel any cognitive dissonance and that allows me to enjoy the experience while it lasts.

Recently, obviously, being here writing this, I've begun to return to a place of contemplation and meditation and, looking back on the last few months, I have a lot to learn and investigate and unpack. It's like I was acting out a film, and now I've taken the role of film critic, except my goal is less about analyzing the content of film and more about deducing the nature of film and video from the footage available.

Nice analogy :)

Recently I've been asking myself: what storyline(s) do I want to create in my reality? These are becoming my point of focus and they're taking away the attention from the conventional comfort zones that I've habitually been falling back into, and that I've been losing satisfaction in.

Originally commented by u/syncretik on 2018-07-22 16:53:08 (e2tkdel)

There's a Tedx video about what it means to be self aware. They widdled the issue down to how you deal with your emotions. You must logically untangled the mess of emotions that is a human. It's essentially mindfulness. You must be mindful to be self aware.

I'm in the same boat though. It's as though there is only so much one can fit on their mental plate. It requires a lot of work. I ensure I have some time to meditate at least fifteen minutes, at least a couple times a week. It keeps me balanced to an extent.

The idea of a mental "plate", which you hold short term priorities like an inventory space, is my biggest issue. I can only work with so much in my inventory so I try to augment myself with external support as much as possible. I carry a note page, 3x5s with priorities categorized, etc.

That said, the way out is through.

Originally commented by u/LegendaryDraft on 2018-11-14 10:15:15 (e9nbs0m)