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FAA passenger night currency and safety pilots? (self.flying)

submitted 2 years ago by rexxit to c/flying

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Asking here because I no longer have a Reddit account: if a safety pilot is a required crew member and one or both pilots are not night current, is it legal to fly after the end of civil twilight?

I could argue it isn't because there are phases of flight where no safety pilot is required (taking off and landing) and therefore they are a passenger. Is that a correct interpretation of the regs?

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[–] vatlark 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Here are the only requirements being placed on a safety pilot that I know of. I don't see night or passenger currency.

FAR 91.109

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least:

(i) A private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown; or

(ii) For purposes of providing training for a solo cross-country endorsement under § 61.93 of this chapter, a flight instructor certificate with an appropriate sport pilot rating and meets the requirements of § 61.412 of this chapter.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.109

[–] vatlark 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The safety pilot will also need a medical https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/instrument-flight/safety-pilot-rules/

[–] rexxit 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Not anymore - I believe the language that appeared to exclude basicmed was revised last year, although I'm having trouble finding the reference

[–] vatlark 1 points 2 years ago

Yes I think basic med is ok.

[–] rexxit 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

But the acting PIC / sole manipulator must be night current during operation at night while not under the hood, because the safety pilot would be a passenger during that time, right?

[–] vatlark 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I think whoever is Acting PIC will need to be night current, because like you said at some point in the flight the other person is a passenger. I don't think it matters which person is current, but whoever it is will need to be the Acting PIC.

I don't think the Acting PIC needs to be the sole manipulator, so the other person can manipulate the controls even during takeoff and landing. The person manipulating the controls is the one that gets to log the PIC time per 61.51(e). If an accident were to happen it would be the responsibility of the Acting PIC, so letting other people manipulate the controls is a risk for them.

For the logging PIC vs Acting PIC I like this: https://express.adobe.com/page/fY5kNj26Vca1w/

Here is a forum with a similar question: https://www.askacfi.com/32071/maintaining-night-currency-with-a-passenger-on-board-and-the-passenger-holds-a-ppl.htm

Edit: CFIs are allowed to fly with students even if the neither of them has passenger carrying currency, because neither are considered a passenger. FAR 61.57

[–] rexxit 1 points 2 years ago

These are the details I was looking for, thank you!

[–] theyoyomaster 1 points 2 years ago (4 children)

It's been a few years but when a buddy and I were building some IFR hours with a safety pilot shortly after I got my PPL the interpretation my CFI gave me was I couldn't be PIC if I wasn't night current. I picked him up during the day but then at civil twilight he hopped out and I did my landings then picked him back up.

[–] vatlark 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This is a good interpretation from the FAA for that situation: https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2014/Schaffner_2014_Legal_Interpretation.pdf

[–] theyoyomaster 1 points 2 years ago

Thanks, I don't do much GA so on the rare occasion that I do I'm always looking up stuff like this.