Inherently I knew that there was a lot of work that went into an instance like this, but seeing you spell it out is really eye opening. The amount of love and work you put into this is quite a feat, and while I am new here, I have to say that I super grateful. This is super rad. Thank you.
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Meta community. Discuss about this lemmy instance or lemmy in general.
This instance joining the org is great news, really happy to hear that!
I'm also quite excited about your plans on democratizing this online community, though I would have been worried if you just glossed over those ppl who can't afford to contribute monetarily, but do so otherwise through interactions on here.
I think it's rly important to keep it accessible in terms of that
All my projects have been about empowering those who don't have the economic means :)
and I'm rly thankful for it, making the internet a better place!
This is great news, I'm always proud to have @dbzer0 associated with my lemmy activity, but starting a non-profit only reinforces that this is the community best representing my values. IMHO non-profits and community lead organizations are our best alternative to enshittification, as there are no greedy shareholders running things with zero interest in the actually quality of a thing or service, just concerned with expanding the wealth they were usually born with.
To be fair, a non-profit is not a panacea. Nothing is safe nor sacred in capitalism. OpenAI started as a non-profit. Mozilla is a non-profit. Non-profit (and even co-ops) can and are corrupted all the time, becuase they do not have an ideological underpinning against hierarchical structures that would corrupt them. But we do, which I hope will be enough.
Indeed, think about adding random sampling into the mix. Random peocesses belp reduce corruption/ bias' in self selected pools. Obv doesnt eliminate them if the population is too lop sided but helps.
Not sure how that would work here
This is an ingenious way to do it, and also, the common user lovers flairs. This might be a genius way to get users to want to join this instance, and hopefully, be more influenced by what we tend to stand for!
10/10 Well done.
I've never been here before and I already want the bread flair 🤙
I am now subscribed so I can witness the revolution; OP made a compelling case for a bunch of shit I never even considered and now I want to see what happens.
You know what would go great along with bread flair? A hydro homie flair. 😳
I like it
Great stuff as always. I'll try to donate later this month
Cool. Let me know how it goes
Initial plan is that every subscriber should be allowed to vote, but only subscribers who fund a lot can open new votes for mandates.
I feel like this puts the poorest people in the community who may not be able to afford to donate as much or at all at a significant disadvantage and creates an unnecessary hierarchy (as well as, like you say, room for manipulation, someone who can afford to donate more having more power is icky), as do the different tiers for level of donation.
I can understand why you want to limit voting to people who are an active part of the community (though again, there becomes a hierarchy, like what about people who mostly lurk and only comment rarely? Do we start questioning why someone doesn't participate as much as others? Neurodiversity and other health issues can play a huge part, as can poor education and access to information so someone might not feel confident enough to be very active, but are they then lesser members of the community? What about people who don't have regular access to a device or reliable internet?), and I agree that there should be some way to tell who is a member in good faith and who isn't, but I really don't think that basing it on monetary value and stakeholders (which feels far too close in concept to shareholders), or ranking users in general is the way to go.
In any case, I think the fact that you want to make the instance's running more communal is fantastic, and I think the idea itself is good, but parts of it might still need a little more cooking lol
As for the tags, can we as users tag other users? Will they see the tag, or that we tagged them? Will you, as a sysadmin?
Well if someone cannot donate and cannot be seen contributing in any way, there's very few ways to validate they're a contributing member in the comm. Nevertheless. I have some other plans to allow people to nominate others and I want to onboard other ways to contribute except financially or socially.
As for the tags, can we as users tag other users? Will they see the tag, or that we tagged them? Will you, as a sysadmin?
That's not currently the plan
Well if someone cannot donate and cannot be seen contributing in any way, there’s very few ways to validate they’re a contributing member in the comm
Change online "comm" to real life "community" and that becomes pretty problematic (we should not be relating levels of contribution to levels of rights and power/say).
I'm genuinely not trying to give you a hard time, and I understand that the two are not the same, and that running an online community has its unique challenges (anonymity, trolls, sock accounts, vote manipulation, and on and on), but I also think it's really important to keep the framing of things in mind because it can be so fucking easy to default, even without wanting or meaning to, to the hierarchal constructs we are familiar and surrounded with.
I've never run any community or organisation online or irl, not even modded a community (was only appointed as one on my previous shitjustworks account as a backup), so I don't claim to fully understand the challenges you face in implementing this, or have a magic solution to offer, but I think these points are fundamental and worth highlighting, so I am.
As for the tagging, just to clarify, because I think I misunderstood what a tag or flair is, are they the same? I assumed a flair was the emoji looking things, and those it makes sense that only you can add, in my mind a tag would be like some of the apps have, where you can tag a user as say "troll" rather than blocking, but is that not a thing that is happening here? (sorry, I'm only just waking and baking lol)
Change online "comm" to real life "community" and that becomes pretty problematic (we should not be relating levels of contribution to levels of rights and power/say).
That's the thing. You can't just do that. There's completely different dynamics at play. In meatspace you can see and validate the people you're interacting with and can see they're actuall unique and whether they contribute according to their ability, even if their ability is 0. In pseudonymous spaces like this, all this goes out of the window, so there's very important steps to take to defend against trolls, sockpuppets and entryists.
I have actually run and moderated online comms for the best part of 16 years now and you can look back at my history to see how I've always made it a point to try to empower the unempowered. And now that I have full control of the infra, I want to take a stab at running a radical space with some of these ideas. I don't expect I'm going to be perfect of course, but I'll do my best.
That said, I absolutely recognise that not everyone has the funds or energy to be seen, which is why I want to provide other ways for recognition to happen. At the end of the day though, the voting threshold is really low. It's only the init of new mandates that I think should have a higher requirement, but we're not going to be super anal about it either.
As for the tagging, just to clarify, because I think I misunderstood what a tag or flair is, are they the same? I
So currently none of these are really integrated. But the idea is that only mods (and automated set by mods) tags users, and the user's flair comes from these tags. Eventually I expect we'll see some user-based tagging for personal use based on UIs or extentions in play, but that's not something I can do. Self-flairing and even per-community flairing is something I also want to explore, but one thing at a time. :)
Yeah, like I said, I understand that they are not the same and that online communities bring up challenges that irl ones don't, but I think we should still try to apply as many of the same principals to online communities as we would to irl ones as possible.
That said, I absolutely recognise that not everyone has the funds or energy to be seen, which is why I want to provide other ways for recognition to happen.
Cool, that's basically the point I was aiming at with far too many words lol and just to reiterate, none of it was criticism or doubt of your admining, just wanting to highlight potential pitfalls.
Re flairs and tags, thanks for clarifying! It's completely understandable that it isn't a top priority, it isn't one for me as a user either, though I do like the idea of a personal strike system for milder offenders before resorting to blocking lol but also to highlight friendlies, since I'm terrible with names 😂I'll have to keep an eye out for interesting extensions..
ye a lot of that flair stuff should have honestly been built-in to lemmy, but I'm tired of waiting for it, so I'm rolling out my own :)
Good on you!
IRL Identity Verification?
/s but like, it is one solution to stop sock-puppeting 👀
A lot of OpSec concerns, but if I could can arrange some sort of invite/vouching system, starting from known actors, it might work.
Flair updated with transparency
Love the idea! What if instead of stakeholders voting on everything you implemented a "steering committee" style model. Stakeholders meet/organize at some cadence to make larger decisions and decide the direction to "steer" the instance and the smaller decisions made in service of the direction decided by committee are left to the admins (decided/maintained by committee). The committee would have veto power over those decisions.
Just thinking of communication overhead and how the more is decided by committee upfront the less agile you can be.
Hey there, thanks. The plan isn't to vote on everything, but to provide a way for me to request a vote for important decisions for the instance and also a way for stakeholders to be able to open a request for new votes for thing that affect them. In a sense, the stakeholders become the steering committee and their veto is their vote.
Nice! Perhaps having a flair for long time users who frecuently post to the instance and have shown their compromise to its ideals and ethos. It wouldnt be abuse-proof but I think it would be fair since not everyone can donate and they (ppl making and sharing "content") are what make a social network worth using.
I have 2 questions. Is it possible to migrate an account from fedia.io (mbin, i think) to db0 (lemmy)? and; How can someone without a bank account nor credit/debit cards donate to the instance?
Best of lucks and thank you.
If mbin provides a compatible export to lemmy, you should be able to move over your subscriptions and settings but not your comments.
The res no way to donate without bank but then whole purpose is of his is to setup methods so you can contribute according to your abilities. Stay tuned
I'll look into the export thing but I think i will move to your instance regardless.
Im mostly a lurker and dont know how to code so the only way I think I can cooperate is by helping cover the costs of the server even if its just a symbolic ammount (im mostly poor too) Anyways, if theres something else I can do in the future I will. Thanks again.
Yar!
liberapay flairs added
Nice initiative!
Amazeballs!
Good luck and have at it!
❤️
What’s this symbol from?
This is the new emoji/flair. You can find it in the emoji menu of this instance