this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
486 points (91.8% liked)

World News

39363 readers
4582 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Over the first four days of Israel-Hamas prisoner exchange, Israel arrests 133 Palestinians while releasing 150.

...

But the worry for Palestinian prisoners does not end after their release. The majority of those freed are usually rearrested by Israeli forces in the days, weeks, months and years after their release.

Dozens of those who were arrested in a 2011 Israel-Hamas prisoner exchange were rearrested and had their sentences reinstated.

...

Many of the women and children released during the truce have testified to the abuse they experienced in Israeli prisons.

Several videos have also emerged in recent weeks of Israeli soldiers beating, stepping on, abusing and humiliating detained Palestinians who have been blindfolded, cuffed and stripped either partially or entirely. Many social media users said the scenes brought back memories of the torture tactics used by United States forces in Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison in 2003.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] sirboozebum 67 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Thousands are under "administrative detention" which is imprisoned without charge.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago (4 children)

That just sounds like hostages with extra steps.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Oh it’s okay, these people aren’t from Gaza. So they’re not related to the conflict going on.

This is just what day-to-day life for Palestinians is like under Israeli occupation. This stuff has been happening for decades.

[–] Aceticon 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No, no, no.

Just like there can't be such a thing as State Terrorism "because it's legal so can't be terrorism", there can't be State Hostage-taking "because it's legal"!

/s

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The term I've heard for this the establishment equivalent of a terrorist: a "horrorist" (best link I could find here (2007) about Israel/Palestine conflict, America's "War on Terror," etc).

Basically what they do is legal, and according to plan, and somehow more respectable and orderly than what the terrorists do, but still the outcome is human suffering, often on a much grander scale than what any terrorist could hope for. For instance the accidental bombing of a school (oops!), or in the use of white phosphorous (which turns the divine human into a lump of abject suffering).

"Horrorists" can make you quake with fear, but unlike the terrorist, they have the legitimacy of a democratic state, and powerful allies to back their actions.

[–] Aceticon 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The term I heard for this is "state terrorism".

The actions speak for themselves and how established or not the power of the actors doing the deed is, has no relevance for the moral quality of such actions.

Using different language is a trap put in place by those in established power - it segregates what morally are the same kind of acts into two groups, by how established the power of those doing the deeds are, and the acts of the well established power are relentlessly portrayed using those special separate designations as if they had a morally different character - ann acceptable one - than the exact same acts when committed by those outside established power structures.

This is why, say, when an Israeli soldier shoots on the head a child throwing stones at an armored digger, it's not designated in the media as "murder" or even "terrorism" even though from a strict "taking no sides" judicial point of view it is definitelly the former and depending on intention might very well be the latter.

So yeah, murder for the purpose of scaring the rest is terrorism, no matter if those doing the deeds are part of a well established power structure, called "soldiers" and using 500lb bombs dropped from military planes that cost many millions of dollars or part of a group which is not a well established power structure, called "rebels" and using knifes - the means and how well entrenched the power structure behind the acts is are both irrelevant for the dtermining the moral quality of that deed.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I agree, but I do feel like the harm committed by "state terrorism" is worse, in a way I find hard to articulate. It's true that using a separate word can be a useless distinction, but it does feel different to me in an important way.

But I'm not the kind of person who needs convincing that the state can sin just as well as the individual, so maybe my perspective isn't applicable.

[–] Globeparasite -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

oh yes you can... However when you are sentenced for stabbing two people literally like at least one of the prisonner freed you are not, in fact an hostage

[–] Aceticon 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That explains 1 in 5200.

Only 5199 to go to explain it all away: so go on, don't be shy.

I would love to hear how you explain the ones in administrative detention (guilty of the crime of "walking whilst being Arab"?!)

And don't get me started on all the kids convicted of "assauting with stones an armored digger razing their home" and the palestinians convicted of "hurting 'colonist' fists with their faces" or "defending their homes from a superior race".

[–] orrk 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

you must really believe in 13/50 eh? or does racism stop being a factor when you do enough of it?

[–] Globeparasite 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] orrk 1 points 1 year ago

you can search it up on SPLC's or ADL's website

[–] doingless 3 points 1 year ago

Just learning from the US.

[–] snek 0 points 1 year ago

Wait till you hear that they also sometimes cover your eyes, tie your hands behind your back, and leave you there to sit for hours to "cool down" and this is totally normal IDF behavior. No charge, no witness, no crime

[–] Globeparasite -5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

thing is when HAMAS gives it prisonners list, it is, strangely, more the "I stabbed schoolchildren" than "I tagged anti zionist slurs on the police station wall" crowd that is requested to be free

[–] JGrffn 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ah yes, the 39 women and children released on Friday definitely stabbed schoolchildren. The list of 300 people Israel plans on releasing, most of which are underage or teenage boys, definitely stab schoolchildren.

[–] Globeparasite 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because of the IIIrd Reich recruitment service we know that a ten year old can even be trained into anti tank warfare and other funny things. Considering the childhood program created and played by the HAMAS there are reasonable reason to consider that possibility

We have countless pictures of 15 y old full blown HAMAS fighters. So yes absolutely. Second you went from describing them as children to teenagers, a notable change in vocabulary.

Now you don't want reflexion or constructed thought ? Okay you want to know how I feel ? Well i want to vomit, that is horrible.

As much as it is horrible to brainwash teenagers into fighting for a movement who would murder their sisters if she dared to kiss a girl as much as it is horrible to use ww2 mass bombing tactics on an overcrowded cities as much as it is horrible to see ethnic cleansing

[–] JGrffn 1 points 1 year ago

I understand that people, especially children, are malleable into believing and doing horrible things, and it's a fact that this will happen to many under Hamas or as a consequence of the ongoing conflict regardless of Hamas, but it's also unfair to those hostages to assume that they're already murderers. It's a tragedy waiting to happen for multiple dimensions of reasons for many people involved in this entire conflict (wouldn't you be radicalized if you saw your entire family covered in rubble or being treated like trash by other groups of people?), and it's extremely unfortunate, but we can't just instantly label them all as bad apples for something that may or may not happen to them, or that may or may not describe them currently. They're still children, we can't cast the dice on them, or we're no different from those radicalized beyond common civil morality.

[–] snek 0 points 1 year ago

It's crazy to have to wait for Hamas to do the UNSC's work