this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2023
214 points (97.3% liked)
Asklemmy
43393 readers
1359 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
No Lemmy ettique missing as there wasn't enough of a community to form anything. I had no issue with the smaller size and all the usual posters I'd see and chat with have dispersed with the larger array of content.
But now you don't get people signing up, talking about the lack of content and disappearing. Or servers set up in hope and shut down - eope.xyz caw.ai Jeremmy.ml or ones that ragequit fapsi.be. And of course wolfballs.
Even if most go back to reddit it will still be an improved space with the servers and communities that remain I think.
The lack of "Lemmy etiquette" is basically the whole point of the project. There is no general rule. There are places for shitposting, there are places for serious discussion. The civility fetishists get their corner, the people who enjoy replying to bigots with pigpoopballs.jpg get their corner. There is a niche for everybody - and if there isn't - you can start one without being completely isolated from the rest of the network (at least, initially).
The situation on Reddit was absurd. The "Reddiquette" rules were generally okay, but very open to subjective enforcement. I spent many years on Reddit. I browsed a lot of different communities on there. But if one person on a community I browse makes a post saying "look what this asshole is saying" on another community I browse, and I go there an make an insightful comment, I am now "brigading." If somebody wants to politely debate whether trans people have a right to exist, or whether or not we should send the homeless to concentration camps, and I tell them to fuck themselves, I am being "uncivil."
Communities need mods and admins who have their back, not mods who become cops for the admins who become cops for the board of directors who only care about increasing KPIs and profit. The coolest thing that can happen on the Fediverse is landing in a place where the admins will eat a block or two to defend the integrity of their communities. This is something which is simply impossible on Reddit.
I should've known it was the beginning of the end of my time on reddit when I commented "well if people are gonna start flying Russian flags on their trucks here in the USA I'll be keeping a baseball bat in the trunk of my car" shortly after the invasion of Ukraine began - specifically non-violent, and if they'd have been able to read my mind, the intent was so I could smash the windows out of their truck not actually beat the shit out of them, and I received a 3-day ban from the whole site for "advocating violence" or whatever the fuck it was called. I took a looooong break from reddit after that as I was honestly pretty disgusted an admin essentially supported Russia by banning me for my benign comment, but found myself there again.
Without RIF I'm definitely never going back.
Double Edit: removed my previous edit as it was based on reddit tendencies I need to get over haha
Let's flip the argument around. Lets say i wrote:
'if people started flying rainbow flags on their cars in my country , I'll keep a baseball bat in my car'
Do you think i deserve to be perma banned for 'advocating violence'?
Yeah I gotta say personally both sentences sound violent to me. They can absolutely be understood in both a violent and a window-smashing way, but the wording is so on the line that I too wouldn't want to see it in a community.
The meaning of what we say or write is not purely what is meant by the speaker/writer but also in large part what the audience or the person we speak to hears and understands. As the person saying something, we always have to be aware of how it may be understood or misunderstood. We all have different contexts, experiences and ways of communicating. All we can do is be as specific as possible to remove any uncertainty. Vague wording is how dog-whistling operates.
Maybe a better way of wording it would have been:
"if people start flying (...) flags on their cars in my country, they better watch out for their windows 'cause I'll be keeping a baseball bat in my car"
Oh you're certainly right, i was just thinking about windows in the 2 examples above!
No, in my opinion that follows the rules, it's not inherently violent. I think the implication is gross, and would rightfully be downvoted, but it doesn't break any rules. It's a bit of a false equivalency though considering LGBTQ+ people weren't actively killing thousands of civilians, destroying homes, and raping thousands of women, like the Russian government was orchestrating at the time (and still is from my understanding, it's just not interesting enough for the fucked 24 hours news cycle any more).
Totally agreed. They've been too ban friendly lately, I'm sure it's only gonna be worse.
I also agree it's a false equivalency, just a not so good example of how arbitrary mods can be.
No, you'd be banned for hate speech.
Ah yes, the other side of the same 'censorship' coin ๐
Social media needs moderation to function
Gonna say that comment sounds very nationalistic and xenophobic to me. Would I ban you for it? No. But you'd definitely get a warning if I was the mod.
Unless you're doing the same thing for anyone flying the US flag, that's just standard hypocrisy.
I don't think Lemmy supports Russia. It's very anti-imperialism in general, which is a good thing! But, Americans advocating for violence exclusively against other imperialist symbols just smacks of double standards, ya know?
It's a shame, I had written a whole large reply earlier around lunch time, only to realize at the end of it that closing my keyboard on mobile completely backed out of my comment I had been writing. I'll try to get the same reply across now and make sure not to close my keyboard haha.
I get how it can appear nationalistic, but it was less than a month after Russia had invaded Ukraine, and I was still very, very upset about all the war crimes (and war at all to begin with) that Russia was committing against Ukraine. Definitely don't get me wrong; I have issues with just about every military action the USA has taken too; I don't like this country but I was born here and have no real way to get out.
But you're right, I look down on folks flying the American flag on their vehicle, but I wouldn't want to smash their windows out. Maybe that's something I need to work on about myself, and it's something I'll try to think about from now on. I was raised as a frothing-at-the-mouth almost-fascist conservative, listened to fox news and rush limbaugh with my parents growing up. I feel extremely lucky to have broken free from the brainwashing, but the rage... It's my personal hypothesis that I have a rage problem, especially about politics, because of right wing media. And despite me realizing they're in the wrong, and becoming what my parents would consider a "radical socialist" (ie probably moderately liberal for the entire rest of the world lol), the rage has always stayed, just redirected against the people I learned it from. It is however something I have been working on, and continue to work on. That comment is not something I think I would say again today, I'm fortunate for having made that progress.
Finally, a warning is absolutely reasonable, and is pretty much exactly what I expected to happen in the worst case scenario, because I knew I was pushing it with that comment in regards to violence, but my rage at the time said it was acceptable with all the atrocities the Russian government had been committing (and continues to of course). Definitely not blind to the atrocities the USA has committed and is committing either though.
But it's very nice to hear actual constructive feedback etc.; As I'm sure you know on reddit you'll only ever get blind support or hateful attacks it seems. I'm really enjoying Lemmy so far and hope it can continue to broaden my mind and help me discover biases and prejudices I don't realize I have.
Jesus Christ, I'm not a tankie ๐
I'm a 'reddit is too ban friendly' guy.
I also mentioned in another comment that the false equivalency example might not have been too great. Hope you see where I'm coming from.
Ah yes, I see where you're coming from now. I'm sure you can understand I'm quick to go on the defensive/offensive after dealing with how it is on reddit ๐คฃ
I definitely agree, they're definitely way too ban happy as of late.
It's incredibly refreshing to have an actual conversation that doesn't immediately dissolve into accusations and name-calling though, and I greatly appreciate your replies and I'm very much looking forward to using Lemmy know. I'll just have to work on my tendencies I've acquired from reddit ๐คฃ
I'm gonna remove that edit as it was kinda dramatic anyway and I wrote it from the viewpoint of, I just woke up at the time and I'm used to how the reddit hivenind runs. This is an extremely refreshing community just from our interaction here so, hate to be repetitive but, I'm even more excited for this community now.
Haha, the feelings mutual. I lurked on Reddit , having imaginary arguments with strangers and never quite commenting.
If you see one of the comments on this thread , both of what we said as examples could be misconstrued for violence. Certainly didn't think before i wrote it.
We're both learning , friend ๐
They let 14-year-olds drive?