this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2023
8 points (100.0% liked)

The Deprogram Podcast

58 readers
2 users here now

International Anti-Capitalist podcast run by an American, Slav and an Arab.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

the boys are doing lord's work converting people to MLism and SWCC

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (8 children)

Unfortunately the Deprogram guys still refuse to set the record straight on the nature of the Russia-Ukraine conflict which leads to them attracting people whose ignorance, Russophobic bloodthirst, and imperialism compatible views are not being challenged. Case in point: just today in the comments of the new video on JT's First Thought channel there were people who were still saying that the Ukraine war is "an inter-imperialist conflict", were cheering on the assassination of the Russian war journalist in St Petersburg and wishing for Alexander Dugin's death (not that we as communists need care much about Dugin whose ideology is quite confused and undeniably reactionary, but to call it fascist is a misrepresentation, and his importance has been greatly exaggerated...the point being it's never a good sign when you find yourself on the same side as actual Nazis wishing that an enemy of said Nazis is murdered). It's not a big step from those kinds of views to thinking that China is "authoritarian state-capitalist", or that the BRI project is neo-colonialist/imperialist, and unless the Deprogram finally take a clear stance on Russia and China they will keep fostering a community that at the very least tolerates these sorts of views.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Can't deprogram people if people who need deprogramming never show up. Those same listeners who think China is "authoritarian state capitalist" are going to find themselves reading comments like the one in the above-linked thread and interacting with people from communities like ours, and they'll be receptive to those people because they'll see them as fellow members of the Deprogram Community and not as Tankies. If and when they discover that they're sharing community with MLs, they will have some personal contradictions to resolve about the values overlap.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There is some logic to what you say, but the problem is that the entire Deprogram trio already get labeled as "tankies", even with the non-committal position they take on some of these issues. The fact that they speak positively of the former USSR, the fact that they frequently, if not as often or as forcefully as i would like, praise certain parts of what China is doing and speak out against anti-China narratives, the fact that they criticize NATO and the US first and foremost, this is enough for the liberals who are pretending to be leftists to call them "apologists for authoritarian regimes". So then why not go all the way?

I think we have here another one of those disagreements about tactics where it is impossible to say who is right and who is wrong until we see how things turn out and we have the benefit of hindsight. It may very well be that their calculation that they will attract more people this way and ultimately turn them into principled communists turns out to be right. It may be that i am just too impatient and they are thinking more strategically and more long-term than me. I am willing to be proved wrong on this. But to me it just seems too opportunistic at this time to still keep up this veneer of neutrality given the degree to which the confrontation between the imperialist camp and the anti-hegemonic coalition (Russia, China, Iran) has escalated.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

...it is impossible to say who is right and who is wrong until we see how things turn out and we have the benefit of hindsight.

Yup.

Insert something here about Overton windows and not being so far from the frame that you can't affect how it moves. I'm sure you've heard it before. No need to repeat it. 🫠

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)