this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
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See that's still too vague. Cleaning the bathroom is a domestic duty and yet is something a janitor does in this context. I would say that's probably the dividing line, if it's something you'd pay someone to do then they would be banned from requiring it.
I guess I'll put my personal opinion on the record here. I think that penal labour is generally an exploitative industry, if you want to call it that. And I do think that prisoners who perform work should be paid for that work. At the same time, I'm also sensitive to the fact that it costs a great deal of money to pay for room and board and security for prisoners, and that it's also fair that their labour be used to offset some of the cost of their own imprisonment rather than laying the burden entirely on the public purse.
So while I don't support solitary confinement as a punishment (for anything), I do think that prisoners should have to at a minimum cook and clean for themselves. If they don't want to cook, then nobody else should have to do it; they just won't have dinner that night if they don't cook and serve it themselves. If nobody wants to wash the dishes, then it's not the administration's problem if there aren't any clean plates to use for the next meal. If nobody wants to clean the shower, then it's not the administration's problem if grime starts to build up on it. The State should not force the prisoners to work, but it also shouldn't be the State's responsibility to provide janitors or cooks to look after them.
Which means I agree that "extra" work beyond what's necessary to maintain the basic needs of the prisoners should be paid and optional. "Optional" meaning there's no punishment if you choose not to do it, but if you don't, you won't have money to pay for services like postage stamps, extra phone calls, or the prison commissary. Even if prisoners are only paid half of minimum wage, that's still an improvement, because it recognises that their labour has value and this money can also be used to pay for fines and restitution. A pretty common problem among the newly-released is that they are saddled with an obscene amount of debt because the State makes them pay court costs, room and board, fines, parole monitoring fees, and restitution but only pays them fifty cents an hour for their work, meaning they leave prison thousands of dollars in debt with the threat of parole revocation if they can't pay. That just drives people to resort to crime in order to find the money.
Congratulations you just created a prisoner government that will require select prisoners to do all the work or be physically and sexually assaulted.
We put them there, it's our responsibility to take care of them. There's no getting around that.
I gave it some thought and I think that the other people here actually do make a compelling argument for why domestic labour should be paid and optional as well.
That being said, I'm sure it isn't controversial that free room and board for prisoners seems somewhat... unfair? On the part of the taxpayer, that is. Yes, it's true that the State is already depriving a person of their freedom, but the status of imprisonment is also not intended to be an equal trade. It is intended to separate a person from society for rehabilitation (by giving them the skills and resources they need to succeed and re-integrate after release), to prevent further offences from being committed during the term of imprisonment, to repair the damage caused by the offence, and to punish the offender.
While I agree that the US places too much emphasis on the aspect of punishment, that isn't to say that it should be eliminated. While it doesn't stop all criminals (obviously), it's still true that the fear of going to prison does stop a good number of rational-thinking people from committing minor crimes. The problem arises when the system relies on deterrence as the only way to prevent crime.
I think the punishment aspect is pretty intrinsic though. You don't get to enjoy normal things. You get stripped searched. You're separated from loved ones. You have no privacy. You can't go outside on a whim. And the food sucks. Being forced to work doesn't need to be in the list.