this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
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The Dutch are one of the most evil, bloody and successful colonizers throughout world history. They didn't colonize Palestine, only assisted, but they sure as hell colonized, raped and pillaged their way through many a country in their history. Now they play the good guy Dutch role so we won't make them pay for their atrocities
Oh, you mean the ancestors of the current Dutch population. Gotcha. Okay, well if we are talking about ancestors, then I guess every ethnic group has had ancestors that colonized somewhere or other, since humans don't live exclusively in the place we evolved. And I'm sure we also agree that people don't have to answer for the crimes of their ancestors, only the crimes we do ourselves.
It's funny. When it's your ancestors who stole land it's in the past and I should forget. But you're blaming Israelis today for what was established in the 40s.
I actually really love that. You guys just brush off all responsibility and say "it was my ancestors" but you're still enjoying the fruits of the rape you committed against others. You still look down on those people you fucked.
So many assumptions there. I don't look down on the Palestinian people. I admire their willingness to fight. But, at a certain point, the war is over. You can have an eternal insurgency, or you can make peace. As I said, the issues that would allow Israel and Palestine to live side-by-side have largely been negotiated already. Look, we all get it. The creation of Israel was done poorly. But ongoing events like October 7 are not healthy or sustainable for either side. Israel isn't going away. It can't go away. Israel is a fact on the ground. So what is the point of ongoing terrorism like October 7? Obviously, all that terrorism has accomplished is retaliation and death. There is a better way.
The same choices will probably present themselves to the leadership of Ukraine, sadly. If the US and Europe don't drastically ramp up support for Ukraine and give them long-range weapons, Russia will grind them down. What should the Ukrainians do if they can't win? Fight to the last man? Achieve a ceasefire and then spend the next 80 years supporting a holy war insurgency against Russia? No, that's dumb. That's a good way to lose the world's support and also get bombed into oblivion by Russia, and make your people miserable and poor. Ukraine isn't dumb. They'll negotiate a ceasefire and acknowledge the de facto borders at the time of the ceasefire. Then Ukraine will build up its economy again and wait for Putin to die and for events to turn their way. Then, hopefully, they will join the EU and possibly NATO.
Palestine could do something similar. Go for the two-state deal. Forget about right of return, forget about Jerusalem, drop the religious fundamentalist bullshit. Trade away Gaza to Israel in exchange for removing all of the Jewish settlements in the West Bank. Or something similar. Unify the Palestinian people in a common geography and a positive vision for the future. Land deals work. Remember that time Israel handed back the Sinai in exchange for peace with Egypt? Egypt and Israel are still at peace.
What about compensation? Well, the world will help the Palestinians rebuild if they think Palestine will be stable and not an Iranian puppet supporting a terrorist insurgency. The Saudis alone would probably supply tens of billions of dollars to Palestine if Hamas wasn't there to hoover it up and convert it into weapons and terror tunnels.
I think we all need to cut out the zero-sum thinking because it leads to people becoming so desperate that they are willing to do literally anything to win.