this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
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I was taking a look at the Naomi Wu situation (A Chinese DIY tech youtuber who went missing after being watched by the government) and in one part they mentioned that she was concerned about her privacy, so started using Signal, but had a default chinese keyboard that had a keylogger and the police had looked into what she was talking on there.

I'm not sure if it was a mobile only thing, but it was mentioned that the keyboard app was used in like 70% por chinese smarthphones.

Now, I use AnySoftKey and refuse to use default keyboard apps, but how far can we reach on the keyboard security thing? Is typing on a computer or using a physical keyboard on a mobile device 100% safe? I think the keyboard issue is often overlooked and would like to know what recommendations your have? Or what should be known more?

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Holy shit I didn't know she was missing.

I guess advocating open source is enough to be imprisoned.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not quite missing, but she said she had received strike 2 of 3, and the 3rd one is really bad. So she's going quiet to avoid any potential stuff from happening.

https://www.hackingbutlegal.com/p/naomi-wu-and-the-silence-that-speaks-volumes

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Welcome to the CCP

[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is very wise to use a FOSS keyboard app, because if you think about it a keyboard app would probably be the thing on your phone that knows the most about you. I don't mean that to fear monger, it's just a thought. Plus if you look at events in the past few years like swiftkey's little user data error it gives you an idea of how privacy invasive they could or could already be.

[–] Miimikko 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Good recommendations for an app?

[–] petrsimek1712 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

OpenBoard (specifically the fork by Helium314 that supports gesture typing) is what I prefer.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can't seem to find this on fdroid, github, etc. Mind sharing a link?

[–] Syrup 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Keyboard is absolutely a thing to be careful with. On Android mobile, use OpenBoard for example. On computer, if you use Linux, also install kloak [https://github.com/Whonix/kloak], a tool that slightly delays randomly your keystrokes to help you hide your typing pattern that can definitively identify you

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So, that makes your typing worse so you can't be identified?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, it randomizes the key timing. It also doesn't address stylometry so you can still be identified, but it helps. I made a browser addon that does the same thing. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/private-keyboard/

[–] Syrup 8 points 1 year ago

Not worse, but less repeatable. You don't see any difference in typing, it just help reduce fingerprinting

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Who exactly can view my typing pattern?

[–] Syrup 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Absolutely every website you visit or app you use, if they track such info of course.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For those who would like to know more about what happened to Naomi Wu, aka SexyCyborg:

https://www.hackingbutlegal.com/p/naomi-wu-and-the-silence-that-speaks-volumes

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the link!
I have been worried about her ever since the "clipped wings" tweet. Hope she's doing ok 😮‍💨

[–] Asudox 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I used to use Gboard with a firewall that isolates the app so that it can never connect to the internet. Though that was in the past and I'm not sure if that is even effective. So I just switched to a open source keyboard in FDroid

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Removing network permissions from the keyboard! I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this. Great idea

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

This sentence kinda highlights how outlandishly dystopic the whole thing is.

[–] Asudox 6 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I used RethinkDNS's Firewall. It's pretty good.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Probably a good place to ask. Are there any FOSS keyboard apps for Android with swipe typing?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

AnySoftKeyboard is FOSS and supports gesture typing. It has not been updated in a while and I find it buggy.

Helium314's OpenBoard fork is FOSS but supports Google's proprietary gesture typing library.

FlorisBoard is FOSS and supports gesture typing, but does not have word predictions. It is being worked on.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I use FlorisBoard - but it's under heavy development at the moment, as the dev is doing a complete rewrite... autocorrect isn't implemented yet, but swipe/gesture typing is.

There is another one that has swipe typing and autocorrect but can't recall the name at the moment

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Yes, but you need this fork for swiping gestures.

https://github.com/erkserkserks/openboard

The reason is easy, the libary for swiping is propetary, FOSS projects won't use it and cut this feature.

[–] KrapKake 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the suggestion. I have used this keyboard for about a day now and I love it. I didn't expect much going in but it actually has a lot of features and options.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Florisboard on FDroid.

And dont ever use any Stock Android, its all spyware. Thats simply the truth. At best its "only" Google. Samsung was the worst of the ones I tried, regarding bloatware, but Huawei and Xiami are also horrible and you dont need anything fancy but a keylogger keyboard.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If you go to the Florisboard git hub their is an easy route to install it via Google play, if you can't use fdroid or side load apps for any reason. It basically involves signing up to "beta test" the app which you then get in Google Play as normal.

This may be an important route on some parts of the world.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

And dont ever use any Stock Android, its all spyware.

Also reboots your device if you try and revoke permissions from Google Play Services

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

A while ago I read about a study where they showed how they recreated typed text on a computer keyboard based on the sound the keys made, using AI. I can't seem to find the post right now tho.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

There was a video by Youtuber The Morpheus, dont find it but here is a news article

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

All that comes down to your threat model.

If you're very concerned about sophisticated actors getting effectively keyloggers on you. Install a privacy focused operating system on your phone, like graphene os (fixed spelling). Don't change the keyboard. Keep the default secure keyboard.

For your physical computer, uses very standard keyboard. Nothing fancy nothing that's reprogrammable. Most people have USB keyboards nowadays, make sure you plug your keyboard and mouse into their own USB controller, so nothing can snoop those keystrokes. Don't use a KVM, don't use a fancy monitor that basically got a computer inside of it.

If you think you might be a target, buy your keyboard with cash, in fact by all of your electronics of cash, don't order anything for delivery. They could get tampered with on the way to you.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean if you're that concerned get a thinkpad X200, libre boot it, and run qubes OS

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Good idea, if it fits your threat model.

If your threat model trusts google, then a locked down Chromebook is fine too

The EFF has some good guides to help you design your threat model and tolerances.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/06/digital-security-advice-journalists-covering-protests-against-police-killings

Https://ssd.eff.org

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Qbues on whonix is even better

[–] doppelgangmember 1 points 1 year ago

This Tails if you dont got the time

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

So, the keyboard is important, and is one thing; but one must not overlook that on touch devices, software keyboards run on top of operating systems, and hardware, too.

Actual keyboards made of physical keys/domes/switches, embedded controllers, and USB chips/cables, even if they seemingly present a similar attack surface (after all, they are also connected to hardware with an operating system), are practically harder to compromise.

Yes, in both cases, the operating system has access to the information (be it via the USB subsystem, or via the touch/input subsystem, etc), and the hardware too; but computer hardware is more heterogeneous, more modular and standardized, and "auditable" operating systems are much more common, and readily deployable. Heck, it is entirely possible to run open hardware and open software (including the toolchain to build said software) with a computer; but the same for mobile devices is very much uncharted territory.

The result is that even with our best effort, a mobile device is at the very best a black box, with an unlocked bootloader, a community provided recovery and operating system, often downloaded from random file hosting services, and built with toolchains of variable quality with several proprietary components.

This is not ideal, and it is the best case scenario. In many cases, people run the stock recovery/operating system, and simply sideload software on a device they do not even have root access to.

The takeaway here, is that while nothing is perfect, and there is always an attack surface, using unpredictable components (e.g. standardized, modular), with unpredictable software (e.g. dozen of different operating system families, each with their own version and qwirks), while also having a community of technologists auditing the code (even if only a handful of developers, there is much less risk of them all organizing towards a harmful goal than with a team of employees from a company ultimately led by a single person), practically provides a significantly different environment.
And unless you're an embedded engineer/genius able to design bug-free (g'luck) PCBs from open hardware ICs (so you can have them made via your vendor of choice) and simple components, and then use software you, or people you trust, audited, you have to recognize that you can only do "less bad".

Less bad being a dev-friendly device (old Google pixels come to mind, not sure if they're still like that), installing lineage, /e/ or another alternative system on it, and using software from f-droid (like AnySoftKeyboard - the one I am actually using for typing this).

That, or you decide to trust the reputable (YMMV) company of your choice with your digital life, identity, and data. Many pros I know in infosec go for Apple. It is true that, at least for professional use cases, with companies in the US or in western Europe, it arguably makes sense.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I use familiar Gboard with the network permission toggled off.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the keyboard issue is often overlooked and would like to know what recommendations your have? Or what should be known more?

Overlooked? Not really, for years I have never used built-in keyboard from stock rom, keyboards from goolag store or goolag board.

Most people stick with non-foss keyboards just because it's convenient

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can't lie, gboard is incredible, especially since I use two languages, and I don't have to switch the language every time, it just figures out which language to autocorrect to. switched to open board either way, but I do miss the convenience of gboard

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[–] afunkysongaday 3 points 1 year ago

Use grapheneos, lineageos or something similar. Those contain the AOSP keyboard instead of the google keyboard.