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I personally find copilot is very good at rigging up test scripts based on usings and a comment or two. Babysit it closely and tune the first few tests and then it can bang out a full unit test suite for your class which allows me to focus on creative work rather than toil.
It can come up with some total shit in the actual meat and potatoes of the code, but boilerplate stuff like tests it seems pretty spot on.
It’s WYSIWYG all over again…
Offtopic: But when I was a kid, I was obsessed with the complex subway rail system in NYC, I keep trying to draw and map it out.
When did you get diagnosed?
He's got that ol' New York City Metropolitan Area Transit Authority Blues again, momma!
God, seriously. Recently I was iterating with copilot for like 15 minutes before I realized that it's complicated code changes could be reduced to an if statement.
The key is identifying how to use these tools and when.
Local models like Qwen are a good example of how these can be used, privately, to automate a bunch of repetitive non-determistic tasks. However, they can spot out some crap when used mindlessly.
They are great for skett hing out software ideas though, ie try a 20 prompts for 4 versions, get some ideas and then move over to implementation.
Not to be that guy, but the image with all the traintracks might just be doing it's job perfectly.
Engineers love moving parts, known for their reliability and vigor
Vigor killed me
The one on the right prints “hello world” to the terminal
And takes 5 seconds to do it
Might is the important here
It gives you the right picture when you asked for a single straight track on the prompt. Now you have to spend 10 hours debugging code and fixing hallucinations of functions that don't exist on libraries it doesn't even neet to import.
You can instantly get whatever you want, only it’s made from 100% technical debt
That estimate seems a little low to me. It's at least 115%.
even more. The first 100% of the tech debt is just understanding "your own" code.
If you know what you're doing, AI is actually a massive help. You can make it do all the repetitive shit for you. You can also have it write the code and you either clean it or take the pieces that works for you. It saves soooooo much time and I freaking love it.
That's the thing, it's a useful assistant for an expert who will be able to verify any answers.
It's a disaster for anyone who's ignorant of the domain.
Tell me about it. I teach a python class. Super basic, super easy. Students are sometimes idiots, but if they follow the steps, most of them should be fine. Sometimes I get one who thinks they can just do everything with chatgpt. They'll be working on their final assignment and they'll ask me what a for loop is for. Than I look at their code and it looks like Sanscrit. They probably haven't written a single line of code in those weeks.
I knocked off an android app in Flutter/Dart/Supabase in about a week of evenings with Claude. I have never used Flutter before, but I know enough coding to fix things and give good instructions about what I want.
It would even debug my android test environment for me and wrote automated tests to debug the application, as well as spit out the compose files I needed to set up the Supabase docker container and SQL queries to prep the database and authentication backend.
That was using 3.5Sonnet, and from what I've seen of 3.7, it's way better. I think it cost me about $20 in tokens. I've never used AI to code anything before, this was my first attempt. Pretty cool.
That's pretty awesome.
I used 3.7 on a project yesterday (refactoring to use a different library). I provided the documentation and examples in the initial context and it re-factored the code correctly. It took the agent about 20 minutes to complete the re-write and it took me about 2 hours to review the changes. It would have taken me the entire day to do the changes manually. The cost was about $10.
It was less successful when I attempted to YOLO the rest of my API credits by giving it a large project (using langchain to create an input device that uses local AI to dictate as if it were a keyboard). Some parts of the codes are correct, the langchain stuff is setup as I would expect. Other parts are simply incorrect and unworkable. It's assuming that it can bind global hotkeys in Wayland, configuration required editing python files instead of pulling from a configuration file, it created install scripts instead of PKGBUILDs, etcetc.
I liken it to having an eager newbie. It doesn't know much, makes simple mistakes, but it can handle some busy work provided that it is supervised.
I'm less worried about AI taking my job then my job turning into being a middle-manager for AI teams.
I think the further you get out in to esoteric or new things, the less they have to draw on. I've had a bit of the same issue building Lora telemetry on ESP32 with specific radio modules because there might be a couple of realworld examples out there of using those libraries.
I feel this pain.
I've been trying to get simple telemetry working over lora on a ESP32-C6, LLMs are largely worthless in this. We gotta fall back to old school RTFM models
I turned on copilot in VSCode for the first time this week. The results so far have been less than stellar. It's batting about .100 in terms of completing code the way I intended. Now, people tell me it needs to learn your ways, so I'm going to give it a chance. But one thing it has done is replaced the normal auto-completion which showed you what sort of arguments a function takes with something that is sometimes dead wrong. Like the code will not even compile with the suggested args.
It also has a knack for making me forget what I was trying to do. It will show me something like the left side picture with a nice rail stretching off into the distance when I had intended it to turn, and then I can't remember whether I wanted to go left or right? I guess it's just something you need to adjust to. Like you need to have a thought fairly firmly in your mind before you begin typing so that you can react to the AI code in a reasonable way? It may occasionally be better than what you have it mind, but you need to keep the original idea in your head for comparison purposes. I'm not good at that yet.
I don't mess with any of those in-IDE assistants. I find them very intrusive and they make me less efficient. So many suggestions pop up and I don't like that, and like you said, I get confused. The only time I thought one of them (codium) was somewhat useful is when I asked it to make tests for the file I was on. It did get all the positive tests correct, but all the negative ones wrong. Lol. So, I naturally default to the AI in the browser.
Thanks, it makes me feel relieved to hear I'm not the only one finding it a little overwhelming! Previously, I had been using chatgpt and the like where I would be hunting for the answer to a particularly esoteric programming question. I've had a fair amount of success with that, though occasionally I would catch it in the act of contradicting itself, so I've learned you have to follow up on it a bit.
Oh yeah, of course. You can't just trust it 100%. One time Claude gave me a piece of code that was a nasty bug that could have caused some serious issues. It was a one liner that deleted an employee from database by mere searching said employee with their name. Thankfully I caught it in the dev environment before it got into prod (assuming AQ missed it, too) and started deleting people. lol.
Try Roocode or Cline with the Claude3.7 model. It's pretty slick, way better than Copilot. Turn on Memory Bank for larger projects to reduce the cost of tokens.
If you're having to do repetitive shit, you might reconsider your approach.
Depending on the situation, repetitive shit might be unavoidable
Usually you can solve the issue by using regex, but regex can be difficult to work with as well
And then 12 hours spent debugging and pulling it apart.
And if you need anything else, you have to use a new prompt which will generate a brand new application, it's fun!
Im looking forward in the next 2 years when AI apps are in the wild and I get to fix them lol.
As a SR dev, the wheel just keeps turning.
I'm being pretty resistant about AI code Gen. I assume we're not too far away from "Our software product is a handcrafted bespoke solution to your B2B needs that will enable synergies without exposing your entire database to the open web".
It has its uses. For templeting and/or getting a small project off the ground its useful. It can get you 90% of the way there.
But the meme is SOOO correct. AI does not understand what it is doing, even with context. The things JR devs are giving me really make me laugh. I legit asked why they were throwing a very old version of react on the front end of a new project and they stated they "just did what chatgpt told them" and that it "works". Thats just last month or so.
The AI that is out there is all based on old posts and isnt keeping up with new stuff. So you get a lot of the same-ish looking projects that have some very strange/old decisions to get around limitations that no longer exist.
Holdup! You've got actual, employed, working, graduated juniors who are handing in code that they don't even understand?
I think I would more picture planes taking off those railroads when it comes to AI. It tends to hallucinate API calls that don't exist. if you don't go check the docs yourself you will have a hard time debugging what went wrong.
And of course the ai put rail signals in the middle.
Chain in, rail out. Always
!Factorio/Create mod reference if anyone is interested !<